(Now with pics!) New guitar with twisted neck and a few other concerns

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zeuloa

Posts: 10
Joined: Oct. 2 2015

(Now with pics!) New guitar with twi...

Purchased a new blanca a few weeks ago from a local luthier, and I have a few concerns in which I would appreciate your opinion:

1) A few days after i purchased I noticed that the neck was a bit twisted to the right (looking down from bridge to head) as the head and nut were twisted to that side. Luthier says that I should not worry and keep playing it as he doesn't think this will change sound or playability. He said that the guitar is under warranty and that if anything he can change the fretboard down the road and fix this.

2) I've also asked him to lower the action, and I noticed that he sanded down some of the frets around fret 12 resulting in these being lower than others. Have also noticed fretboard is not flat at the higher frets (It's curved like an electric guitar). Not sure if this is normal or if all frets should have the same height and fretboard be flat from fret 1- 19.

3) In the last few days I've also noticed a bit of a concave in the back of the neck. The fretboard and neck overall seem to be straight though (He uses carbon fiber rods inside the neck). Interesting thing is that he had another guitar that had the same thing and he said it was a sanding error.

I appreciate any input you guys may have regarding these concerns, and perhaps what would your course of action be as a luthier in this position.

Thanks!

I tried loading some pics but got an error message... Something about fakepath not being supported. Any help?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2015 16:35:59

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: New guitar with twisted neck and... (in reply to zeuloa)

All the things you mention seem a bit worrying in a new instrument but without seeing it, its difficult to give a definitive opinion.
If you are not happy with the guitar, you should return it and ask for a refund.

_____________________________

Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2015 18:28:45

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: New guitar with twisted neck and... (in reply to zeuloa)

If they are .jpg and under the size limit it should work...

I agree that some of those things sound a bit troubling. Bear in mind that sighting down a neck can be deceiving if you're trying to tell if there's a twist or what the relief is like. I'd want to see hard evidence with a good straightedge.

Filing down some frets so that they are lower than they were is fine as long as there is plenty of fret left, but if the frets are uneven (a fret rocker will show that some are out of plane with their neighbors) that's a problem.

I put a slight radius on my fretboards, nowhere near as much as a steel string or electric. This is only to prevent the board from ever cupping.

Overall it sounds sloppily setup (sanding error?

) but hard to say without close inspection.

I would say that if you're bothered by these things or not totally in love with the sound, you should just return it as there are plenty of other options out there.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 2 2015 23:08:38

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: New guitar with twisted neck and... (in reply to zeuloa)

I agree with the others, basically, but I would suggest ignoring all of that for a moment and just seeing how you like the feel and sound and responsiveness of the guitar: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 3 2015 4:50:44

zeuloa

Posts: 10
Joined: Oct. 2 2015

RE: New guitar with twisted neck and... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Thanks for your advice Andy! I've tried loading pics from my iPad and Mac as well with no luck... I'll look into the size tomorrow...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 3 2015 6:09:20

zeuloa

Posts: 10
Joined: Oct. 2 2015

RE: New guitar with twisted neck and... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

I appreciate your words, and this is kind of what the guitarrero said... Maybe I am looking a bit too much into this, as if this is a science, and really it's a handmade instrument...

There are some things about the guitar I really like... Sound (although I'm not an expert), the grain on the hominic top, how light it is... Etc

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 3 2015 6:13:25

zeuloa

Posts: 10
Joined: Oct. 2 2015

RE: New guitar with twisted neck and... (in reply to zeuloa)

Finally able to upload pictures!

It seems that the neck blank is flat sawn and not quarter sawn.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (4)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 5 2015 17:29:40

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: New guitar with twisted neck and... (in reply to zeuloa)

Flat sawn necks can work fine, they're just hard to carve.

I'd return that guitar as defective. A twist that severe has a negative effect on the playability.

_____________________________

John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 5 2015 19:56:15

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: New guitar with twisted neck and... (in reply to zeuloa)

There are definitely some unusual things about this guitar. The soundboard looks like it was made from wood that is not quartersawn and that is unheard of as far as I know for Spanish style guitars. The neck and fingerboard do look weird. It looks like this maker has little experience building. Or maybe just a radical philosophy.

I also notice an unusual dip in the back of the neck between the 5th and 6th frets. I like a tiny bit of rounding of the fretboard side to side--it can make barring easier, especially if you are trying to bar and leave the first string open. But this is a lot, like a steel-string guitar might have, as you said. I don't think the twist of the neck relative to the body should necessarily make it hard to play. It might even make it easier, depending on how you hold the guitar.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 5 2015 21:06:14

printer2

Posts: 54
Joined: Sep. 19 2015

RE: (Now with pics!) New guitar with... (in reply to zeuloa)

Makes my little guitar made from a 2X3 with no truss rod, binding or rosette look pretty good right now. Actually inspires me to make a guitar with some Salvador Dali elements.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 5 2015 22:54:57

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: (Now with pics!) New guitar with... (in reply to zeuloa)

Wow, that twist is rather pronounced. Bear in mind that Eric Sahlin and a couple others actually do something like that on purpose. You might want to ask him if he is following that design idea.
But judging from that "sanding error" on the neck, I'm guessing it was also a mistake...

The soundboard looks very low grade: wide, curvy grain (although I try not to criticize other luthiers' soundboard choices as looks can be deceiving).

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 5 2015 23:45:28

RTC

Posts: 667
Joined: Aug. 20 2008
From: DFW Area, Texas

RE: (Now with pics!) New guitar with... (in reply to zeuloa)

I defer my opinion to the experts, as stated above. But if I was the client I would be very disappointed and would returned as soon as possible for a full refund. Good luck and I am hopeful that the maker is reputable and stands behind his work.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2015 0:46:57

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: (Now with pics!) New guitar with... (in reply to zeuloa)

Obviously there is something wrong.
Few questions: How much did you pay for this guitar? Is there any buzz? How does it sound?
The purpose of these rhetoric questions are that if you'd got the guitar for a very reasonable price, the guitar sounds well and there are no buzzes, then you should accept that approssimative work. The maker looks to be an amateur luthier.
If someone instead sold you this guitar as a luthier made guitar, 1st grade "Conde Headed" instrument, you'd have very good reasons of complain.
Just to say that the price and the sell conditions make the difference here.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2015 9:53:07

zeuloa

Posts: 10
Joined: Oct. 2 2015

RE: (Now with pics!) New guitar with... (in reply to Echi)

Thanks for your response. Regarding sound (in my inexpert opinion) it sounds well, and no buzz that I can tell.

Regarding price, I'll be happy to tell you what I paid, but if you don't mind before can I get your opinion on how much you think the guitar should have been?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2015 15:27:21

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: (Now with pics!) New guitar with... (in reply to zeuloa)

Never seen such radiused frets on a flamenco/classical guitar. That, the twist and the weird top would make me very suspicious.

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2015 15:57:35

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: (Now with pics!) New guitar with... (in reply to zeuloa)

Clearly something didn't go through in the final assembly and was fixed lately by the same luthier.
From the pictures you have posted (not very clear) the guitar doesn't seem professionally made.
My point is that the price you paid (whatever it is) makes the difference.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2015 17:46:04

JuanDaBomb

Posts: 189
Joined: May 18 2011

RE: (Now with pics!) New guitar with... (in reply to zeuloa)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zeuloa

and no buzz that I can tell.

I was wondering how high the action is at the 12th fret. It looks pretty high to my eye and the saddle looks real tall too. Not saying those are deal breakers but you may want to re-evaluate the buzzing if it's not already at around 3mm. Just sayin'...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2015 20:06:16

zeuloa

Posts: 10
Joined: Oct. 2 2015

RE: (Now with pics!) New guitar with... (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Would you mind elaborating a bit more regarding the top - what is weird about it?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2015 22:40:36

zeuloa

Posts: 10
Joined: Oct. 2 2015

RE: (Now with pics!) New guitar with... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

It's a bit higher than 3 on 6th string and even a bit higher at 1st (I understand it should be other way around).

To be fair, I took the guitar to the builder about 2 weeks ago to lower action and sand out some rough spots on lacquer, but I had to pick it up before he was finished, therefore this could contribute to the uneven action.

Attached some pics of entire guitar.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2015 22:47:04

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: (Now with pics!) New guitar with... (in reply to zeuloa)

Maybe it's because of the zoom of the picture but that seems like a very wide grain right in the center. I think the normal practice is to use the tightest grain at the center of the guitar an if there's a part of the wood with a wider grain, that goes to the outter part of the part... sorry, I don't think I've explained myself that well.

Wait for a luthier to tell you what he thinks about the top.

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2015 23:08:29

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: (Now with pics!) New guitar with... (in reply to Sr. Martins)

I think you explained it well. And maybe it is the size of the photo. It looks more normal in the more recent photo.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2015 23:26:18

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: (Now with pics!) New guitar with... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

It looks more normal in the more recent photo.

Not trying to go against your opinion but between two tie-block holes on the top picture I counted 6 grains and then looked at mine right here and it has 14 between two holes...

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2015 0:03:49

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: New guitar with twisted neck and... (in reply to jshelton5040)

I don't care what anyone else says about this guitar. A setup and twisted neck like that is an abomination for a flamenco guitar. If we had the misfortune to build something like that I would never let it out of our shop. It would go into the wood stove.

_____________________________

John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2015 0:30:52

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: New guitar with twisted neck and... (in reply to jshelton5040)

I appreciate your sentiments, John. When I have made mistakes, I have either (depending on how big the mistake was) reduced the price or given away the guitar. One I traded for a massage. A guitar that is inadequate for a serious flamenco player may be good for something else (besides burning).

I agree, Sr. Martins.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2015 0:52:04