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RE: Paco - our new dog -
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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 RE: Paco - our new dog - (in reply to Ruphus)
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We lived in Alaska for two years. I was 11 to 13 years old. This was long before Malamutes and Siberians were fashionable pets. In those days they were working dogs. But they presented a problem if not confined and worked.
My good friend Ivan was born and raised in Alaska. On winter weekends and in the summer we hiked over the countryside surrounding Anchorage. In those days we could start walking from my house after breakfast, and by lunchtime we could be at a place where there was no sign a human had been there before us.
During my first winter there we were hiking in a remote place, and paused to rest sitting on a fallen log with a view across a frozen creek. A pack, I couldn't tell whether they were dogs or wolves, ran along the opposite bank, paused behind fallen timber, then cautiously raised up above it to observe us.
I was worried. It was my first encounter with wild canines, and we were armed only with.22 caliber pistols. Ivan was alert, and a bit tense, until he had a good look at the animals. Then he relaxed and said, "It's okay. They're wolves."
"What do you mean, 'It's okay.' All we've got are these little popguns to defend ourselves."
"We don't need to defend ourselves. Wolves are afraid of people. If they were dogs, we might be in trouble. Dogs aren't afraid."
It was against the law for people to allow their dogs to run free. Both winters roving packs of dogs killed small children in the nearby countryside. In each case their owners were known and prosecuted.
But that was a long time ago. I suppose that Huskies bred for the pet trade might be more docile than the working dogs in Alaska sixty-odd years ago.
RNJ
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Feb. 22 2016 21:47:24
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: Paco - our new dog - (in reply to Ruphus)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruphus
It is unquestionable that a pack of dogs presents another degree of danger than a pack of wolves.
There is however one item unclear to me regarding location and point in time.
Huskies are reknown for having been selected in a way that left them strictly harmless to men (kind of like dollcats), no matter how they be treated. It is being said that these breeds will under no circumstance attack humans. (Which again is why they can´t be expected to function as guards / as they welcome strangers friendly.)
From there I assume that a potentially dangerous pack up there in the north would need to have non-sledge dog genetics. (Which today should be quite thinkable, with all the different breeds like e.g. ovtsharkas that must have spread further up north.)
Ruphus
I can't speak to the genetics of sled dogs in Alaska in the late 1940s-early 1950s, nor do I choose to speculate. Among my friends, family and associates it was generally considered wise to be cautious around them, even when confined, but especially when they were allowed to run free. I learned this from people born and raised in Alaska. Instances of attacks upon humans were regularly reported with occasional fatalities. In the immediate vicinity of Anchorage dogs killed more people than bears did. There were no brown bears around Anchorage at that time, but black bears were quite plentiful.
Unlike brown bears which are dangerously unpredictable, and may attack people with little apparent provocation, black bears are generally shy and retiring. But accidentally coming between a black bear and her cub could be a fatal mistake. One quickly learned to be cautious around them.
In February in Anchorage there was the annual Fur Rendezvous. This was named after the old custom of the trappers coming into town in mid-winter to sell a few furs and re-stock their store of provisions. One feature of the Fur Rendezvous were dogsled races that began on the street downtown, went out into the countryside and finished downtown again.
Often there were a dozen or more teams of dogs hitched to their sleds, tied up to posts along 4th Avenue waiting to start a race. Frequently a team would work its way loose and attack a nearby team. The owners would appear and wade into the fray, grabbing dogs by their harnesses and hauling them away from one another. The dogs attacked the opposing owners without hesitation, indeed with considerable enthusiasm. The owners wore heavy leather protective clothing, and were seldom seriously injured.
Perhaps Huskies for the pet trade have been bred for docility in the last sixty-odd years? Twenty generations would be plenty of time to instill this trait. Over the same period the appearance of the winning teams in the Iditarod race has changed markedly. Today's winning dogs are much lighter and more slender than the ones years ago. I haven't seen any of these racing dogs among the pets.
RNJ
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Date Feb. 23 2016 22:06:17
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Paco - our new dog - (in reply to Ruphus)
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Once, when my brother was abroad himself a burglar jumped over the wall of his datsha.
According to the housekeepers the ovcharkas fixed him at the wall without attacking. They would only threaten him at the slightest move. That way they kept him in place for hours until the housekeepers showed up and surrendered the guy to the police.
In German we have a word that is "instinktsicher". I think it could be translated with "intact instincts". Dogs with intact instincts won´t be irritated that soon through unexpected / unfamiliar occurence, allowing tolerance / chance for things to clear up.
From what I learned from cynology / educational reads and participation in a forum for owners of herding and guarding dogs (mainly Kangal) the very most of traditional breeds (and stray / village dogs anyway) used to be of intact instincts.
For originally breeders were selecting after talent for individual tasks and character in question.
Only with the business factor of the past decades breeding lines have become prone to neurotical specimens. Due to profits and optical criteria males are being separated from the litters (as they would check and eliminate individuals with lacking response) and aspects of character being dismissed (as well as genetical defects and deseases).
On the contrary, it´s being said of respected breeders who keep relevant factors in check, despite of the considerable price that they charge per sold dog, breeding hardly pays off financially in view of all the selection and vet bills with a conscientous policy.
Ovcharkas on the other hand are an example of messed up breeding line away from profiteering causes. When the USSR army adopted this breed as means for military use they largely focussed on enlarging body size, ignoring other charcteristics. So that today many ovcharcas are of no intact instinct and can be unpredictable.
An example to the contrary must be the Nagazi (a Georgian breed).
An extremely protective and independent character with yet very intact instincts within its still original breed.
Seems one couldn´t be better served when living in the outback somewhere, needing a capable yet reasonable guard.
Of dobermanns people seem extremely fond all over the world. I get to hear all passionate stories about them, even here in ogres land.
For some reason it appears as if their genetics were to be extremely stable / overcoming todays vastly detouched breeding methods still with robust character.
Yet, optimal chances for intact instincts ought to be with stray dogs. At least with those of several generations if not more.
Following my layman estimation strays over an extended period of time tend to develop to monochrome reddish appearance (similar to how the dingo did). So, if that be correct, with adopting such a stray chances of a very healthy dog, both in respect of immunity / physical health as well as intact instinct, should be specially good.
Ruphus
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Date Feb. 25 2016 13:14:49
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