The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition

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Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition

Does anyone have this? After the mess of the 2005 version, I’m curious as to what it’s like. Have all the typos been fixed? Or did they revert to a previous edition?

I’m also curious about the copyright, since I heard some time ago that Donn’s wife Luisa had also died, the Bold Strummer is now apparently moribund, and the listed publisher is Amazon.com’s spinoff company…

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2015 17:30:25

MikeC

Posts: 79
Joined: Mar. 19 2015
From: Panama (living in South Florida)

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

Paul,

I have it. I bought from Amazon recently. I've only read the first part and haven't noticed significant errors. I have no point of reference though, since I haven't seen or read the older versions.

Mike

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2015 19:18:45

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to MikeC)

If it were the same as the 2005 edition, you’d have noticed the typos by now.

Could you post the edition and copyright information from the info page, please?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2015 20:01:51

MikeC

Posts: 79
Joined: Mar. 19 2015
From: Panama (living in South Florida)

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

Is this it?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2015 1:17:46

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to MikeC)

That’s interesting, since Donn died on 5 November, 2007.

Many thanks.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2015 15:50:24

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

That’s interesting, since Donn died on 5 November, 2007.

Many thanks.

in music world the law has been "life plus 50 years" for (p) which is sound recording or (c) printed scores. That means we may keep seeing (p) Paco de lucia on subsequent Siroco printings at what ever dates it gets re published, until february 2064, at which point it becomes public domain. Royalites go to his estate as per his will.

Not sure how book world works, it is probably similar situation.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2015 15:59:28

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to Ricardo)

Yes, but surely it shouldn’t have both his name and a date of 2014? I would expect either his name with the last date he renewed the copyright, or a 2014 copyright by his estate?

P.S. “protection generally lasts for 70 years after the death of the author.” Wikipedia, Copyright Law of the United States.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2015 18:33:37

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

Yes, but surely it shouldn’t have both his name and a date of 2014? I would expect either his name with the last date he renewed the copyright, or a 2014 copyright by his estate?

P.S. “protection generally lasts for 70 years after the death of the author.” Wikipedia, Copyright Law of the United States.

It can have both dates, the original publish date that he was the owner of copywrite, and the 2014 re-publish... I am sure if you look you will find another date with (c)...

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2015 20:11:37

MikeC

Posts: 79
Joined: Mar. 19 2015
From: Panama (living in South Florida)

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to Ricardo)

I don't see any other copyright dates. The only other dates are the preface to the original edition (1962) and prefaces to revised editions(1967, 1971 and 1984). And the last page says: "Made in the USA; Lexington, KY; 18 May 2015"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2015 3:35:10

runner

Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

The 2005 edition was a disgrace, and I was surprised that Pohren didn't (to my knowledge) complain bitterly about the typos and wrong fonts--I counted at least 495 instances before I gave up the chore. The Strummer made a mess of the Genealogy of Cante Flamenco chart, and the photos were poorly reproduced and full of moire patterns. I offered my proofed copy to the Strummer (at one time I earned my daily bread as a proofreader and copy editor), in case they might be interested in making corrections for a next edition, but received no reply. So I threw the book away, and continue instead to rely on my 1967 edition. The 2005 edition was also kind of sad in that Pohren clearly felt that flamenco had lost much of its authenticity and vitality, and that sadness permeates the added commentary that he appended to many of the older editions' sections. I would be interested in anybody's comments who has read both the 2005 and this newest edition.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2015 4:22:09

Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to runner)

quote:

The 2005 edition was also kind of sad in that Pohren clearly felt that flamenco had lost much of its authenticity and vitality, and that sadness permeates the added commentary that he appended to many of the older editions' sections.

Sadly Donn was right. Here a quote from the author of "Pasión y muerte de Macandé": "Pienso, en efecto, que muchos cantaores actuales son solamente intérpretes o cronistas de tragedias pasadas. Y son porque sus vidas transcurren por caminos muy apartados de los motivos creaciones del cante."

Sin hablar de la subida de la "guitarra flamenca".

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2015 15:43:10

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to runner)

quote:

I was surprised that Pohren didn't (to my knowledge) complain bitterly about the typos and wrong fonts

He did. I got a long and extremely embittered e-mail from Luisa on the subject in 2011. She said it was confidential, or I'd quote some of it verbatim. I heard nothing from her about any new edition, and now, as I said, I've heard she passed away. I’ve been unable to contact Tina.

I also offered to proof-read the Strummer edition for free, but Nick said he had already a proof-reader. Nothing came of all of it.

Which is what makes me curious about this current Amazon edition.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2015 23:03:41

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to Morante)

quote:

que muchos cantaores actuales son solamente intérpretes o cronistas de tragedias pasadas.

Very likely true. But do you want modern tragedies, so that the cantaores will have something to sing about?

The conditions that create forms of music pass; that’s as true of (for example) Jazz, Folk and Bluegrass as it is of Flamenco.

Some composers (for example, Štěpán Rak) have tried to write pieces in the style of the Renaissance; but somehow it never quite works.

In other words, you can’t go back.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2015 23:16:51

runner

Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

Paul, thank you for your input! I have always admired Donn Pohren's impassioned sanity as an "explainer" of flamenco to the Outside World, and The Art of Flamenco remains a fundamental text. So I am delighted to learn that Pohren did indeed rail against the horrendous treatment of the book by the Strummer. I was stupefied that the Strummer could publish such a mutilation of a great book and put their name on it. Also glad that others, seemingly many others, had the same reaction. Love to know about their alleged proofreader.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2015 23:25:21

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

quote:

But do you want modern tragedies, so that the cantaores will have something to sing about?

Something like that is occurring in Mexico these days, where the traditional "corridos" (which used to be ballads about vaqueros, unrequited love, and outlaws) have largely been overtaken by "narcocorridos," ballads extolling the exploits of drug traffickers.

Bill

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2015 23:41:36

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to BarkellWH)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
the traditional "corridos" (which used to be ballads about vaqueros, unrequited love, and outlaws) have largely been overtaken by "narcocorridos," ballads extolling the exploits of drug traffickers.

That in itself is tragic!

It seems artists have always been susceptible to making their lives tragic through drug abuse - who needs a regime like Franco's to inspire your cante when you can wage a war inside your own being with chemical abuse? But, so long as a singer isn't completely messed up when they walk (not stagger) on stage (and lyrics aside), can an audience tell the difference as to where the source of the anguish lies if the singer is so bold as to express a deeply felt anguish and the audience listens with open ears and open heart?

To partly answer my own question - I don't hear any anguish when a chorus of backing singers gentle roll out "la la la ley ley ah yi ah yi" - is that a lack of tragedy on the behalf of the artist or a lack of willingness on the behalf of some (presumably many) people buying records to dig deep into what might be found in the depths of jondo? Who's more at fault here - artists or audiences?

By the way, thanks for the thread - I'll try ordering this book right now (and leave Meyer to Runner and Estebanana

)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 30 2015 2:35:40

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen
Does anyone have this? After the mess of the 2005 version, I’m curious as to what it’s like. Have all the typos been fixed? Or did they revert to a previous edition?

I’m also curious about the copyright, since I heard some time ago that Donn’s wife Luisa had also died, the Bold Strummer is now apparently moribund, and the listed publisher is Amazon.com’s spinoff company…

Paul, I've now got a copy. Thoroughly enjoying it, no painful typos yet, but then I'm only at the murder in a bar after the wedding.

There is no mention of the 2005 edition. There are revisions to the preface dated 1971 and 1984, nothing after that. I would hazard a guess that the 2014 edition is the same as the 1984 edition - but I've nothing to compare it to. I can take photos for you if you'd like to know something specific.

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Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 8 2015 1:46:27

El Frijolito

Posts: 131
Joined: Feb. 27 2016

RE: The Art of Flamenco, 2014 edition (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

My main complaint was that Pohren restricted himself to recommending just one anthology of recordings ('Medio siglo...') on the basis that so many recordings had gone out of print. It would have been interesting to see what he had to write about recordings discussed in previous editions as there have been more than a few reissues since.

The quality of the image reproduction is not high.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2016 0:02:40