Harmonizing in the Phrygian Dominant (Spanish Phyrgian) mode

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siliconsoniquete

Posts: 38
Joined: Apr. 14 2015

Harmonizing in the Phrygian Dominant...

If I were writing a harmony (say on an interval of thirds) in A Phryigian, I would be working in the Mixolydian mode right?

So if I'm harmonizing with a falseta in Spanish Phyrgian, does the same rule apply?

Hopefully this question make sense.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2015 17:12:20

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Harmonizing in the Phrygian Domi... (in reply to siliconsoniquete)

Doing straight diatonic harmonization of a phrygian line in thirds results in mixolydian but that thinking won't work in flamenco for many reasons.

If you're thinking about harmony, go chord by chord and adapt your melodic lines to that or vice versa. Analyze/practice that and you'll understand the whole thing better instead of trying to make a rule with 1000 exceptions.

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2015 17:23:53

siliconsoniquete

Posts: 38
Joined: Apr. 14 2015

RE: Harmonizing in the Phrygian Domi... (in reply to Sr. Martins)

That makes sense. I guess I wasn't looking for a hard and fast rule, but are there basic guidelines to follow?

Also could you explain why that line of thinking doesn't work in Flamenco? Just trying to learn. Thanks!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

Doing straight diatonic harmonization of a phrygian line in thirds results in mixolydian but that thinking won't work in flamenco for many reasons.

If you're thinking about harmony, go chord by chord and adapt your melodic lines to that or vice versa. Analyze/practice that and you'll understand the whole thing better instead of trying to make a rule with 1000 exceptions.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2015 17:36:50

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Harmonizing in the Phrygian Domi... (in reply to siliconsoniquete)

Flamenco as a music genre has very important rules which keep things from escaping the form structure in terms of creativity... It can be complicated or simple depending on specifics. Let's ignore that for now and address the basic general music theory question I think you are asking.

So say you have this "Spanish Phrygian" melody:

A Bb C C# D E / F E D Cnat C# Bb repeat

You are looking for diatonic thirds so you have options depending on the color your ear prefers:

1. C# D E E F G / A G F E E D repeat

That is most correct harmonically but we have two E notes instead of fluid melodic movement. You can experiment with these options for a more exotic color:

2. C# D Eb E F G / A G F Eb Enat D repeat

3. C# D E F F# G / A G F# E Fnat D repeat

4. C Db Eb Enat F G / Ab G F Eb Enat Db repeat

And lots more so experiment

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2015 21:40:23

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Harmonizing in the Phrygian Domi... (in reply to Ricardo)

Forgot to add the 6ths example (could also be 3rds below depending on octave position)

E F G# A Bb C# / D C# Bb G# A F repeat

Some fourth intervals there by necessity but here is another option:

F# G G# A Bb C / Db C Bb A Bb G repeat

Occasionally you find a cooler melody than the one you started with... I like this last one best.

And for final craziness pick at random from each example and mix em up:

F# D Eb Fnat Bb C# / Ab Cnat F# Anat Fnat Db repeat!!!

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2015 22:36:30

siliconsoniquete

Posts: 38
Joined: Apr. 14 2015

RE: Harmonizing in the Phrygian Domi... (in reply to Ricardo)

Thanks! Very helpful. So could you think of this as an Ultralocrian mode? Or is that still oversimplifying.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2015 23:05:44

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Harmonizing in the Phrygian Domi... (in reply to siliconsoniquete)

quote:

ORIGINAL: siliconsoniquete

Thanks! Very helpful. So could you think of this as an Ultralocrian mode? Or is that still oversimplifying.

Forget modes cuz this music uses changing accidentals and chromatics to harmonize...modes stick to a specific unchanging scale and static harmony/drone or vamp concepts

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2015 23:07:56

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Harmonizing in the Phrygian Domi... (in reply to siliconsoniquete)

quote:

Also could you explain why that line of thinking doesn't work in Flamenco? Just trying to learn. Thanks!

Sure, here's the reason:

quote:

Forget modes cuz this music uses changing accidentals and chromatics to harmonize...modes stick to a specific unchanging scale and static harmony/drone or vamp concepts

Thanks Ricardo