Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you guys think?   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: <<   <   1 [2] 3    >   >>
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to JonathanMtz) 
I'm sure it's a finer line than we like to think.... My whole life I've dealt with "Oh you like metal? I just saw Greenday!" To me Testament and Greenday are worlds apart but probably to 90% of the world it sounds the same....

quote:

You can't really mix those worlds. Keep the music where it belongs or the only pussy you'll be getting is the one on your dislexic thumb video.

Hahahahaha music is my go to! I'm no longer pretty and girls don't wanna talk about construction so my options are limited! Lol

_____________________________

\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2015 0:04:09
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to JonathanMtz) 
The whole rumba thing is pretty big in the south of France. There are quite a lot of gypsies of Spanish origin there too. I once got excited when I saw a poster for a "Gypsy flamenco show" at the bull ring in Sommieres. The show started with a fairly naff paella and deteriorated from there on. The worst was that it was completely obvious that the two dancers could dance flamenco and with great aire - at one point the band went silent and a dancer switched to a 12 beat compas unaccompanied, it was the highlight of the show, there was real fire there. In the break I asked one of the dancers why they were doing so much rumba (mixed with salsa). She saw exactly where I was coming from and explained it was the musicians who wouldn't / couldn't and suggested I pressed them on why they don't. She did (rather humbly) say her son played flamenco, but I never had the pleasure to meet him. He wasn't there and we didn't stay for the second half of the show.

For R n G, I don't buy their records but I'm happy if I hear that in a bar. It beats the hell out of a lot of other pop music (a genre where virtuosity has never been a make or break issue) that gets more air time on the radio. They've been successful whilst remaining honest so good luck to them. I prefer it to much of the crap that is sold as flamenco i.e. the GK imitation bands that don't play other palos. That is a darn right con. But why play something that takes a lot of effort to play if your audience will make no effort to listen. Most pop I hear here in the Caribbean comes out of a machine and follows the same sickly formula - all you need is a large arsed bimbo in an undersized bikini wobbling her butt on the beach and your canned music with attitude gets aired on TV.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2015 8:32:28
 
sig

 

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to chester) 
Yeah, I was quite diplomatic and I never use it as a "bully pulpit" to push the flamenco understanding agenda. I agree, that is not the time nor the place to lecture to the uninitiated...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2015 15:01:19
 
bicharraco

 

Posts: 25
Joined: Mar. 19 2015
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
Otro problema que veo en esto de la marca flamenco, es que los gitanos de fuera de Andalucía lo quieren coger como algo suyo, cuando no forma parte de su tradición musical. Ahora los gitanos de Galicia o Aragón se declaran flamencos porque "es que lo llevan en la sangre" y te los ves por la tele intentando hacer pasar sus rumbas como flamenco, o imitando a Camarón hasta en los gestos.

Incluso hay gitanos franceses o portugueses que se dicen flamencos, supongo que dentro de poco veremos a gitanos búlgaros diciendo ser flamencos con pedigrí!!!!

Estos gitanos forasteros saben tanto de flamenco como los fans de Ottmar Liebert, pero contaminan los comentarios de vídeos del youtube con insultos racistas, criticando a los no gitanos, ensalzando a los no gitanos y, lo mas divertido, creyendo que algunos artistas payos son gitanos mientras insultan a los payos (facepalm.jpg).

Hace poco leí a una gitana catalana afirmar que el flamenco no tiene absolutamente nada que ver con andalucia

En fin, que entre el flamingo guiri y los gypsi Kings estamos apañados...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2015 22:33:41
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to bicharraco) 
Gitanos portugueses suck at music in general
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2015 22:49:03
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
Ciganos no? That's what the Brazilians out here call 'em....
Is there "traditional" cigano music??

_____________________________

\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 0:37:02
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
Oui, ciganos.

Ciganos = gitanos


Traditional portuguese ciganos music = half assed pop/rumba ****
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 1:53:26
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
That sucks.........at least ya'll have fados

_____________________________

\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 2:20:51
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
I used to think R&G plain sucked, but they've grown on me a bit. Anything good about them is what Gabriela does, IMO. Rodrigo's stuff is a dime a dozen.

_____________________________

Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ


Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 2:47:27
 
minorthang

 

Posts: 222
Joined: Dec. 25 2014
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
lenador i like that testament and green day - but both good - green day rocked when i saw em .alex scholnick(testament) epitomizes metal guitar for that day not very much the jazz dude


i guess the thing is if u dont like it move on is much decent music - i personally like Gabriela legs - trim and cool she hits the guitar nice ! no golpeador required

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 4:02:55

ToddK

 

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
They make Ottmar look like Rafael Cortez.



_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 5:06:05
 
minorthang

 

Posts: 222
Joined: Dec. 25 2014
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
having said the above i really have too pay more attenion to cortez @@@
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 5:28:34
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
Well, these two have lots of things going for them. They perfected their image, figured out what crowds like, and are doing it consistently. They have got nice rhythm. And for that they have my respect. Who cares if it's flamenco or not. They work hard and get paid for it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 5:31:00
 
Thomas

Posts: 225
Joined: Oct. 5 2005
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Grisha) 
quote:


RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 

Well, these two have lots of things going for them. They perfected their image, figured out what crowds like, and are doing it consistently. They have got nice rhythm. And for that they have my respect. Who cares if it's flamenco or not. They work hard and get paid for it.


+1

_____________________________

TeFau Studio Thomas Vogt
Cuadro Sur Guitar Trio
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 5:56:08
 
minorthang

 

Posts: 222
Joined: Dec. 25 2014
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
agreed completely-- i- they are fine in fact was just jammin with em on youtube while i can in china
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 5:56:22
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
I dunno....they're kinda the reason I picked up a nylon string guitar so I'm thankful for that, and it is different than most other "fakemenco". But I just can't listen to it anymore.....something about soloing over chord progressions really just doesn't touch my soul anymore, even when done by my current heros and done well....I used to love that kinda thing too.....

_____________________________

\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 6:35:26
 
z6

 

Posts: 225
Joined: Mar. 1 2011
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
I really like this particular tune. It works marvellously. These guys can really perform.

The point is not that they are using intermediate techniques, the point is that they are maximising those techniques to produce hot stuff.

It sounds incredibly virtuosic. I love guitar music that does that. Usually, the virtuoso stuff is so hard to play but this looks like a very long slide for a pretty short run.

They are terrific players. I don't think it's fair to compare them to Paco's trio because Paco's trio sounded all over the place a lot of the time. These guys are tight.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 9:26:27
 
koenie17

Posts: 438
Joined: Feb. 25 2011
From: España

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
Jeeezzz... Whats about all this complaining about other musicians and other music?!?
Cant believe this thread is getting this long... Rodrigo & Gabriela might not be real flamenco, but it sure does get
people interested in flamenco.
In Spain people love rumbas! Many peñas have their on choir, and guess what they sing...

Lets please stop this, and enjoy the music we love...
And stop disrespecting music other people love!



_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 9:29:40
 
Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Grisha) 
quote:

Well, these two have lots of things going for them. They perfected their image, figured out what crowds like, and are doing it consistently. They have got nice rhythm. And for that they have my respect. Who cares if it's flamenco or not. They work hard and get paid for it.


Thanks....totally agree with you. Its difficult to earn a living as a flamenco. These guys have a great act and have lots of work. In my opinion artistry and commercialism are two different things. I got fed up some years ago of spending months learning (for example)
Barrios- catedral. Result - polite applause.
Improvisation of "La Bamba" in rumba style. Result - Crowd goes crazy.

Yes it would be nice in an ideal world if everyone took more interest to educate themselves in flamenco and understand the beauty of the art....but its also a musicians job to entertain. If you can educate as well then all the better but you cant force people to understand flamenco any more than you can make them enjoy Opera or abstract painting. In Flamenco shows we all use Rumbas, Sevillanas, Alegrias and Bulerias to entertain the audience. I like Rodrigo and Gabriela because they dont pretend to be anything they are not, they work very hard and have an act with a wide mainstream appeal.

_____________________________

Follow my blog http://pimientito.wordpress.com/

"Ceremonial" by Mark Shurey "Pimientito". CD and digital download vailable on Amazon and
CDbaby. http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/markshurey
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 9:50:34
 
sig

 

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Ricardo) 
Yeah, I know they do some flamenco and for purposes of clarity for the audience
member, I tried to keep it simple and not get into a long description of the individual
forms. Yes, I believe I said Rumba is a part of flamenco but again I was just
making a point for simplicity's sake... I have to admire R&G, they have seemed to
figure out what audiences want and don't represent themselves as flamenco puro.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 12:25:07
 
JonathanMtz

 

Posts: 26
Joined: Apr. 26 2015
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
I know that feeling. Personally, I started playing guitar just because I saw Paco playing Entre dos Aguas. The first time I heard those short scales in the finale I literally fell in love. I also started playing Rodrigo & Gabriela's songs with a friend of mine and now I'm really into expressive palos like Minera, Rodena, or Tarantas. In my opinion, Rumba is a good start for any person who wants to start flamenco, I know that Solea is the ideal but more people can relate to Rumba (or dance to it)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 15:07:06
 
Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to JonathanMtz) 
They remind me a little of these guys:

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheFrankVignola

I saw these guys live and really enjoyed their set. The difference is these guys are great jazz guitarists doing a "show" that targets the general public. Whereas R&G aren't great flamenco guitarists. I'm pretty sure Frank and Vinnie take heat from purist jazz fans, but at the end of the day, they have the chops to hang with professional jazz players. That is the biggest difference to me. I personally don't care for R&G's act. I find her playing annoying and his.....well if I had a cute girl to play rhythm for me I guess I'd like it. But jeez, she should have actually studied flamenco at least a little so she could be a good rhythm player in that style. I understand they are "working hard" and travelling and at this point don't likely have much time for that. Just off the top of my head I can think of two musicians I know that work just as hard, making a living traveling all over the world without compromising their artistry in this way. But, they also earn way less money. Truth be told, I'd have been happy to have written the "Macarena" and been able to do gigs all over the world in spite of the tune I would have to play, so I'm not hating on R&G, but I'm also not a fan.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 16:08:45
 
bicharraco

 

Posts: 25
Joined: Mar. 19 2015
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Sr. Martins) 
Half assed pop rumba es la música de todos los gitanos ibericos no andaluces, solo aquí beben de unas fuentes diferentes, obviamente gracias al sustrato cultural y musical local.

Si Paco es culpable de haber acercado al flamenco a hippyes descalzos como Ottmar Liebert, Camarón es culpable de haber traído al flamenco amlosmgitanos forasteros y, en general, a público urbano de los barrios bajos. Camarón empezó a ser venerado como una especie de santo por gitanos de toda España y de otros sitios como Francia.

Flamenco, una música de minorías, y su marca es codiciada por muchos.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 17:31:33
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Mark2) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2

They remind me a little of these guys:

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheFrankVignola

I saw these guys live and really enjoyed their set. The difference is these guys are great jazz guitarists doing a "show" that targets the general public. Whereas R&G aren't great flamenco guitarists. I'm pretty sure Frank and Vinnie take heat from purist jazz fans, but at the end of the day, they have the chops to hang with professional jazz players. That is the biggest difference to me. I personally don't care for R&G's act. I find her playing annoying and his.....well if I had a cute girl to play rhythm for me I guess I'd like it. But jeez, she should have actually studied flamenco at least a little so she could be a good rhythm player in that style. I understand they are "working hard" and travelling and at this point don't likely have much time for that. Just off the top of my head I can think of two musicians I know that work just as hard, making a living traveling all over the world without compromising their artistry in this way. But, they also earn way less money. Truth be told, I'd have been happy to have written the "Macarena" and been able to do gigs all over the world in spite of the tune I would have to play, so I'm not hating on R&G, but I'm also not a fan.


+1

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 21:28:30
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
quote:

They remind me a little of these guys:

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheFrankVignola


They're awesome! I'm a fan now.

_____________________________

\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2015 22:42:51
 
estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to JonathanMtz) 
If flamenco were a duck it would quack like this:

This is more right hand than Gabby has. Although she's a doing well to make a living waving her right hand in front of a guitar.



_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2015 13:53:36
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to estebanana) 
Some time in the 1980s my girlfriend said to me, "Richard, please take me to the flamenco show."

I don't remember who the lead dancers were, but they were names I recognized. The show was in a good sized theater in San Francisco. The best seats I could get were at the front of the balcony. It was far enough from the stage that you couldn't really make out the faces of he performers very clearly.

Things went pretty well. Then a cantaor stepped forward to sing soleá, without a microphone. As soon as he opened his mouth the sound filled the big hall. I muttered, almost silently, "Good God!" then just as quietly, "Ole, ole." I gestured to my girlfriend to lend me her little binoculars.

She handed them to me and whispered in my ear, "Somebody special?"

"Yes, somebody special. That's Chocolate."

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2015 18:40:26
 
estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan) 
quote:

Some time in the 1980s my girlfriend said to me, "Richard, please take me to the flamenco show."

I don't remember who the lead dancers were, but they were names I recognized. The show was in a good sized theater in San Francisco. The best seats I could get were at the front of the balcony. It was far enough from the stage that you couldn't really make out the faces of he performers very clearly.

Things went pretty well. Then a cantaor stepped forward to sing soleá, without a microphone. As soon as he opened his mouth the sound filled the big hall. I muttered, almost silently, "Good God!" then just as quietly, "Ole, ole." I gestured to my girlfriend to lend me her little binoculars.

She handed them to me and whispered in my ear, "Somebody special?"

"Yes, somebody special. That's Chocolate."

RNJ



Must have been the show called 'Flamenco Puro' which ran in a theatre downtown. Fernanda was in that show and Juan Habichuela....and a bunch of greats.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 2 2015 8:43:22
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Richard Jernigan) 
quote:

Some time in the 1980s


September 1987

quote:

my girlfriend said to me, "Richard, please take me to the flamenco show."

I don't remember who the lead dancers were, but they were names I recognized.


El Farruco, for one.

Below: La Fernanda, Juan Serrano, El Farruco & Farruco’s grand-daughter Afra.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 2 2015 17:11:13
 
estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela, what do you ... (in reply to Leñador) 
Here is a news clipping of a review which appeared in the LA Times for the same show when it played in LA:

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-09-20/entertainment/ca-9304_1_flamenco-dancers

The other dancers, were Manuela Carrasco, and Angelita Vargas, and as you know Farruco...the review failed to give the line up of all the guitarists, but I think Pepe Habichuela was also in the show.

_____________

As for the important points made by three or four working guitarists that musicians need some popular entertaining music to bring to the stage, yes you nave to make a living and it's fine. You guys have artistry, taste, and background in fine music. You bring entertainment as a plus on top of that. Bands or groups like Gab & Rod seem to only bring the entertainment. For me, a listener who has been heavy into several kinds of music that requires deep listening, I find G&R super boring and the guitar solo against a rumba compas to me is really a super cliche'.

I think this is all well and good and the general public is served by this and musicians can make money doing music. But in the end I want and need a deep music or art that has the power and gravity to grant a kind of redemptive journey through the music. And while I can respect anyone who can make it through the journey of navigating the music business, that is how I primary see the journey of that music they play. I don't get a deeper satisfaction or it does not challenge me to change myself in order to listen to it.

Some music demands that you change yourself in order to get with it and allow it to take you on a journey, and the result is a redemptive feeling, a real liberation, some truth for the moment. And some music meets you where you are and does not make you step up and challenge yourself to understand it. The point of music is to operate as the former, but if the latter is needed as a part of the bigger vehicle, that's ok.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2015 1:25:52
Page:   <<   <   1 [2] 3    >   >>
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: <<   <   1 [2] 3    >   >>
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.109375 secs.