Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Professional Model?   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1] 2    >   >>
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Professional Model? 
I'm thinking of making a less-expensive model flamenco guitar so that I can sell more guitars. It seems like many of the people who can afford expensive guitars are collectors and not professional guitarists. And professional guitarists don't usually make a lot of money. So I am thinking that the lower-priced model should be called the Professional Model.

The only way I can see of doing this is to us a finishing method other than French polishing. Sprayed nitrocellulose lacquer comes to mind, but I don't have a spray booth.

Please share your thoughts on this.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 19:07:27
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
I learned how to restore automotive finishes and the additional equipment wasn't very expensive. A gravity-feed, HVLP Devilbiss Finish Line gun was around $150 and it may have come down in price since then. Also, you might not need a professional, downdraft spray booth. You could set up something yourself as long as you have an exhaust fan with an explosion proof motor.

Could you French polish the top and use a different material to finish the rest of the guitar? This might be the best combination of performance and value. BTW: What price point are you considering? I think your guitars sound fantastic. Is Gerardo still playing the guitar you made for him?

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 19:31:55
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
quote:

I'm thinking of making a less-expensive model flamenco guitar so that I can sell more guitars.


I'm not sure you'd sell more. For many people a higher price means a better guitar and something cheaper is not as good. Never mind the actual quality!

I think making guitars is a whole lot easier than selling them. You say you want to sell more? I think the biggest single factor is your reputation and my impression is that you are doing very well in that respect.
Anyway, good luck whatever you decide.

_____________________________

Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 19:36:31
 
Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to krichards) 
As a buyer, I would look at reputation AND price. Good guitar, good sound, good pedigree but without the frills is a solid offering. Depends on the price, of course How many of us could really tell the difference between FP and a sympathetic coat of cellulose?, sound-wise?

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 20:59:09
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to krichards) 
There is definetly a market for instruments that sound and play great but are cosmetically less than perfect. I know nothing about luthiery, am not a pro guitarist, but would love to upgrade my axe (A. Morales 2002 blanca with a relief problem and warped sound board) for better playability without sacraficing (or perhaps even improving) sound quality. But I've family of 4 living on one salary and can't imagine ever getting together the money for a pro model. I don't really care for the cosmetics, hey often I play with the lights out at night anyway. So far I thought my best option seemed to be an Anders 2f, but even then, it's gonna be a long stint of scratching and saving and the clutch on my car just burnt out :-[ ay ay ay!!!

Good luck!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 21:18:10
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to Pgh_flamenco) 
quote:

Could you French polish the top and use a different material to finish the rest of the guitar? This might be the best combination of performance and value. BTW: What price point are you considering? I think your guitars sound fantastic. Is Gerardo still playing the guitar you made for him?


Thanks so much for your feedback guys. Pgh_: That's an idea, fp just the top, as some people do. To be frank (even though I'm Ethan), I don't think fp is necessary, even on the top, to get the best sound. I don't know if Gerardo is still playing the guitar I made for him. I am thinking of $2000 as a possible price. How does that sound?

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 21:28:59
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
We all had one of those moments when we thought "Damn! I wish the finish on this was harder!".

I think there will always be people who prefer more protection in detriment to an eventual sound enhancement that FP would provide. If you consider that your market could also be people who want to buy a workhorse/fool around guitar, maybe the harder finish would be a good thing (besides the cut in cost).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 21:37:11
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to Sr. Martins) 
Thanks, Sr. Martins.

Now, I'm thinking about whether I could stand to use a pre-made rosette. Making one is a lot work, but I don't know if I could feel very good about making a guitar without making the rosette.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 21:43:43
 
Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
quote:

I don't know if I could feel very good about making a guitar without making the rosette.


Then make a simple but elegant one in a batch :-)

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 22:09:34
 
Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
quote:

I am thinking of $2000 as a possible price. How does that sound?


Sounds good to me.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 22:15:33
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
quote:

I am thinking of $2000 as a possible price.


Ethan, it's a free market so of course you can charge whatever you want to for your guitars. But in my opinion that price is waaaay too low for an experienced top quality luthier's work. You would get more orders for those than you knew what to do with but unless you can make 2-3 of those a month I think you might regret it, although there are some high-output makers that have gone that route in the past (Hippner, Sigurdson).

I think that would siphon a huge amount of demand away from your top end guitars because you're offering something that would probably sound just as good.

Ask John Shelton but I think he would say that a good quality spray job is almost as difficult as French polishing, and knowing you I can't see you settling for a lesser quality finish.

There is also the very real concern of dragging down the market for other luthiers, if people start to view $2000 as a reasonable price point for a guitar from a top quality luthier.

I tried to ramp up my prices as soon as I felt that I was making a very good flamenco guitar so as not to undercut the market. In fact I'm confident enough in my guitars now that I'm thinking about raising everything to around $4000 minimum, but as you say it can be difficult to sell guitars...

Best of luck whatever you decide.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 22:24:20
 
tijeretamiel

 

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
 

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: constructordeguitarras

Thanks, Sr. Martins.

Now, I'm thinking about whether I could stand to use a pre-made rosette. Making one is a lot work, but I don't know if I could feel very good about making a guitar without making the rosette.


It's just my perspective but as a player I'm fairly unbothered by the finish and the rosette. The finish I myself might be alone but I prefer non FP finishes; not for tonality but nitro/poly finishes are less easy to ding. Rosettes are something I've never really ever thought about, a rosette is a rosette as far as I'm concerned. There are more important aspects to the guitar as far I'm concerned.

Aside from FP, I've heard Oil finishes are quicker than FP and take less time to do so maybe that could be a option?

As a player, I think it could be a worthwhile avenue to pursue to a 'professional'/2A guitar. From a business perspective I have no idea whether such a model would impact your sales though.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 22:28:27
 
Fawkes

 

Posts: 103
Joined: Feb. 11 2015
 

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
Shellac does not have to be applied with a pad after all. One can brush it or spray it (although I hear the latter takes some problem-solving to get right). A guy I know used to brush shellac on his instruments and then pad the top layer.

Don't worry about what you'll do to other makers, good heavens. Compete freely and take joy in whatever you're able to achieve in the way of greater efficiency. If I found a really satisfactory instrument for that price I'd snap it up today.

Years ago (10? 20?) I read an article in American Lutherie about a guitar maker had set out to be a one-man factory (he used to work in a factory) for guitars to sell at retail. He had everything charted out in a schedule including maintenance time and retooling for design revisions. He moved guitars in batches through his different stations.

People who can get organized like that and pump out the work are utterly admirable in my view. There's a lute, violin, and string maker named Daniel Larson who is a monster of productivity this way. He's got all sorts of jigs and machines and has lasted a long time in a tough business.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 23:04:30
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
quote:

Thanks so much for your feedback guys. Pgh_: That's an idea, fp just the top, as some people do. To be frank (even though I'm Ethan), I don't think fp is necessary, even on the top, to get the best sound. I don't know if Gerardo is still playing the guitar I made for him. I am thinking of $2000 as a possible price. How does that sound?


I like $2,000 as a possible price (sorry Andy) provided the instrument has the same tone and playability as your higher grade instruments. Lower grade wood and anything else that could help you save time or money--such as pre-made rosettes--would be worth using. I actually like the pre-made rosette with roses that is so common on flamenco guitars.

Gun stock Tru-oil is easy to apply and can be sanded to a high gloss finish or applied so that it is satin with a silky texture. It was a high-end finish option for some electric guitars in the '80's and was used on the back of guitar necks as well as on maple fingerboards. For the latter it had to be re-applied every year or so because it would wear off from contact with the strings. I've personally used it to seal rosewood fb's and it gives darker woods a uniform color. Great product IMO...

If you decide to use pneumatic tools to apply the finish post on the foro and I'll make additional recommendations regarding tools and setup.

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 23:11:40
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to Fawkes) 
quote:

Shellac does not have to be applied with a pad after all. One can brush it or spray it (although I hear the latter takes some problem-solving to get right). A guy I know used to brush shellac on his instruments and then pad the top layer.


There were posts about this on the foro years ago and it was referred to as gommalacca IIRC.

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 23:22:32
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to Pgh_flamenco) 
quote:

If you decide to use pneumatic tools to apply the finish post on the foro and I'll make additional recommendations regarding tools and setup.


Thanks, Pgh_. I worked for three years as a spray finisher in an office furniture factory, so I know something about it. I was spraying conversion varnish, which i understand Robert Ruck has used. I examined one such guitar and it was interesting how he left all the texture of the finish alone. It is incredibly tough stuff. For that, you definitely need a spray booth.

I'm thinking I may get several instruments ready for finishing by the time there is warm sunny weather here and spray them in the backyard using aerosol cans from Stew-Mac, which I have done before (ages ago). Or at least one and see if anyone wants to buy it.

So, I am thinking no side purflings, no bee sting, no french polish--those might be the only differences from my higher-priced guitars. Possibly a pre-made rosette and possibly no top purfling; I'm still considering.

Besides the finishing, it is the ornamentation that adds a lot of work. I don't want to use woods that are different from what I use now. I have never judged soundboards by their visual characteristics, which is how the really high-priced ones are judged.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2015 23:46:47
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to Andy Culpepper) 
Andy--

I appreciate your remarks and I may just be dreaming about the possible price. The thing is I'm having a very tough time now and anything having to do with making guitars seems better than going out and trying to find a job doing something else.

Strangely, I have had guitars with a small cosmetic imperfection that I have had trouble selling for $2000. (If anyone is interested, I have one now.) That and the wholesale price I get from GSI for a $4000 guitar are what made me throw out that possible price. We'll see how I feel when I actually make the thing.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2015 0:06:35
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
Ethan, if you can survive building what you do now, then DONT MAKE A CHEAPER MODEL!!!!!
What may easily happen is (best option) that you will start selling less top guitars and slowly converting yourself into a second range (2A) luthier. (worst option) digging your own grave. Is that what you have in mind?
The difference in work is very small, like 90 - 95% but the income is around 30% smaller.
Its like if other members (non luthiers) were told that they will have to work the same and earn 30% less or work 30% more and earn what they do now. Would they then accept all the "kind" advices you are getting here? They are just interested in getting a cheaper guitar.

Our business is already pushed out into the limit of what it can take. Right now, these persons are bragging about our art and our fantastic work. When you and I and others have stopped because we are either broke or burned out, these guys will not care. They will forget us and start bragging about someone elses work while they sit in their office chairs and eat donuts and drink coffee.
Those telling you that 2000,-$ for a luthier built guitar is a good price, should think about what they write.

Yes, I´m direct, honest and not hiding anything, but this is real life and not someones mental game while they are bored. Now I have to take yet another break from this place because I have to take care of myself and visiting this place is not good for my health.

Dont ask me about my own experience with making cheaper models. You can read the answer between the lines.

Just one final advice: If you decide to walk the plank, dont call it a professional model. Not because its absurd or pathetic but because then you´ll have to answer I dont know how many mails from dudes not understanding.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2015 10:05:35
 
jmb

Posts: 119
Joined: Oct. 14 2014
From: Vallecas - Madrid - Spain

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
I am not a sybarite with guitars. So, I give my opinion from a point of view of business. May be I am wrong and my experience in other fields sdoes not match with luthier business. but I consider that your are suggesting a dangerous step for your business.

If your market is collectors... collectors are your market. What's the problem? If you have a tocaor that you would like he play your guitars consider a price reduction or even a gift for a wonderful guitar just for him and be sure that he will play it and people say "he play the guitar of". One thing is your will and other the market (money)

Think about the three clasical P of marketing

Price
Place
Product
Promotion

Now your are focused on (good) Product P, your key P. And your are considering to move you focus on price leaving part of you key P. In a basic MBA strategy the best is usually leader in price or leader in product but mixed strategies are usually a disaster. And now:

- Are your guitars being selling in the right place?
- Could a gif or punctual special price reduction promote your guitars?
- And a very important aspect on the last question: does any superb tocaor change easily his usual guitar?

Ah! And another more: remember that if Iyou introduce your products in a new niche where there are already competitors. ... your can go out of business.

_____________________________

Suenas payo ¡y lo sabes!

Sing and string - other flamenco blog
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2015 12:42:46
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
quote:

Just one final advice: If you decide to walk the plank, dont call it a professional model. Not because its absurd or pathetic but because then you´ll have to answer I dont know how many mails from dudes not understanding.


Thank you for replying, Anders. At least your final piece of advice is well taken.

As for the rest: I can't survive on selling as few guitars as I have over the past year. I really have to do something differently until I am so famous that I have a backlog of orders. I am willing to work harder for a while to produce more and lower-priced guitars. They will be as good as my current model but with less ornamentation. I would rather do that than go out and become a barrista (coffee maker). Well, we'll see what happens. Maybe I will stop after the first one. The fact that my post in this thread caused interest in the reduced-price guitar that I have on hand has given me hope that I can sell some.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2015 15:17:55
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to jmb) 
quote:

f your market is collectors... collectors are your market. What's the problem? If you have a tocaor that you would like he play your guitars consider a price reduction or even a gift for a wonderful guitar just for him and be sure that he will play it and people say "he play the guitar of".


Thanks, jmb. The problem is too few sales right now. Yes, your suggestion to get my guitars into more of the right hands, whatever it takes, is very good and I will get on it as soon as I can.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2015 15:20:59
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
I suppose that the question remains: If we tried some of the most expensive guitars (a few Reyes and Condes) and found that some of them sounded and felt great, while some only decent, but some even revealed disappointing, isn't the same true also for less expensive guitars?

I had the chance to compare three Student Model blancas by Navarro, and I (along with a luthier who worked on them) classified them exactly as that, 1. great, 2. decent 3. bad!

If a more than decent instrument can be built for less than $2,000 then a larger share of musicians could afford to have such guitar. Eventually, musicians will always want to indulge and pay for the famous and prestigious name/label or the guitar made singlehandedly by one expert Luthier. I think that two options should co-exist; market is always revived by competing price ranges, and suffocated by cartel like practices.

_____________________________

gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2015 17:17:20
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to gj Michelob) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: gj Michelob

1. great, 2. decent 3. bad!




That pretty much sums up my experience. Although I might make it , of twelve;

1.Great,9. Decent 2. Bin.

It is real funny in a guitar shop when the salesman explains the advantages to a parent of a really terrible upscale model over an outstanding student instrument. I wonder if they might both be secretly deaf.

Well that's me exhausted my knowledge of guitars.

D.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2015 18:34:08
 
timoteo

 

Posts: 219
Joined: Jun. 22 2012
From: Seattle, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
Have you considered going the opposite direction? That is, offer a MORE expensive "premium" model.

Premium products command much higher prices - there are always people willing to pay whatever it takes to get the best. This is especially true if you think your market is mainly collectors. If you can make guitars that are ten percent better (yes, that's awfully subjective) than your normal guitars, you could sell them for twice the price. Maybe by selecting the best 1/10th of your output and labelling them premium. Maybe by building with superior materials or more ornamentation. The point is, the profit margin on premium products is always much higher, and offering a premium product will boost your income and reputation. It's a mistake in any business not to offer a premium product.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2015 20:23:30
 
timoteo

 

Posts: 219
Joined: Jun. 22 2012
From: Seattle, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
I also strongly suggest you exhibit your work at Marylhurst this year: http://nwmusicalinstrumentshow.org/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2015 20:27:20
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to timoteo) 
Thanks for the suggestions, timoteo.

I am pretty sure it is already too late to become an exhibitor at Maryhurst this year. I had considered it before, but decided it probably wouldn't be worth it because flamenco guitars are such a specialized niche.

Regarding a deluxe product, I'll have to think about that some more. I have very strong preferences about how much decoration a flamenco guitar should have and I don't want to make something that is gaudy to me. Maybe I am too happy with what I have been making.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2015 20:38:29
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
quote:

As for the rest: I can't survive on selling as few guitars as I have over the past year. I really have to do something differently until I am so famous that I have a backlog of orders. I am willing to work harder for a while to produce more and lower-priced guitars. They will be as good as my current model but with less ornamentation. I would rather do that than go out and become a barrista (coffee maker). Well, we'll see what happens. Maybe I will stop after the first one. The fact that my post in this thread caused interest in the reduced-price guitar that I have on hand has given me hope that I can sell some.


Sorry to hear that and welcome to the club. We are a dying specie. Stupid enough to continue and even more stupid listening to all the babble from here. And really stupid trying to survive making cheaper guitars in a world that gets more and more expensive every day. Its like peeing in the trousers in order to stay warm. It works for a couple of seconds and then it just gets colder and messy.
See you on the luthiers graveyard. I dont know who´s funeral will come first

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2015 21:27:07
 
timoteo

 

Posts: 219
Joined: Jun. 22 2012
From: Seattle, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
quote:

I am pretty sure it is already too late to become an exhibitor at Maryhurst this year. I had considered it before, but decided it probably wouldn't be worth it because flamenco guitars are such a specialized niche.


I'm not sure but I don't think it's too late - they always seem to be a bit last-minute about the show - they don't even have any of the 2015 information up on the website yet, it's all about last year.

Flamenco is a niche, yes, but that show is all about niches. Look at the exhibitor list and you'll see makers of tars, ouds, sitars, vihuelas etc. and at least six flamenco guitar makers including Robert Ruck and Peter Tsiorba. Ruck always sits there with just one classical and one flamenco on his table. If nothing else, a chance to pick his brains might be worth the trip. The place is always packed, and the attendees are exactly the sort of people who might buy your guitars. Even one sale/commission as a result would pay for the trip.

quote:

Regarding a deluxe product, I'll have to think about that some more. I have very strong preferences about how much decoration a flamenco guitar should have and I don't want to make something that is gaudy to me. Maybe I am too happy with what I have been making.


Take into account it doesn't have to be about ornamentation - your premium guitars could simply be those 10% of your normal production that sound the best, the ones you're especially proud of. That way you're assuring the buyers that they're getting the best you make, which is always worth a premium price.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2015 21:46:33
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to timoteo) 
Thanks again, everyone.

Timoteo--I think you're right: I just got an email back from Cindy Burton saying that it's too early not too late. I was looking at the exhibitor list from last year and thinking that it was this year's. So, I think I will take your suggestion and go. (What's a bit more debt?)

Anders--We need to cheer up.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2015 22:09:10
 
timoteo

 

Posts: 219
Joined: Jun. 22 2012
From: Seattle, USA

RE: Professional Model? (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
You must read the book "Priceless: The Myth of Fair Value" by William Poundstone

The Seattle Public Library has it available: http://seattle.bibliocommons.com/search?where=catalog&term=poundstone%2C+william&t=smart&q=poundstone%2C+william&search_category=keyword&commit=search

A short description of Poundstone's "Premium Beer" pricing study can be read in item #2 on the page http://www.gregoryciotti.com/pricing-methods/
That study is an eye-opener, because it shows how the psychology of pricing is so important.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2015 22:22:16
Page:   [1] 2    >   >>
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1] 2    >   >>
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.09375 secs.