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Vicente Amigo's music
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Ricardo
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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 RE: Vicente Amigo's music (in reply to rodogtr)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rodogtr
Hello everybody.
I'm Rudy, 29, Italian born but living in London.
I've been playing guitar for 5-6 years. I started with classical but then focused more on a simple and spontaneous personal fingerstyle. I can't do anything too fancy technically speaking since I always focused more on songwriting, improvisation and composition... a bit less on "performance".
I've always been fascinated by flamenco though but particularly on the modern style of Vicente Amigo. I like that kind of melodic, deep style he plays.
I can't find a lot of material about him, his technique, ecc.
Would anybody be so kind and suggest me a sort of a roadmap to learn a bit of what he does so maybe I can incorporate his ideas in my music?
Do you guys think it would be interesting to start learning proper techniques like rasgueo, alzapua, ecc in a separate setting and then maybe try and pick his songs by ear?
Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated
my best to all
Vicente, like most "modern" flamenco players, is a follower of Paco de Lucia, but also, a student and close colleague of Manolo Sanlucar. I would say if you study the playing technique and composing styles of those two masters, you will better understand both Vicente's style as composer and innovator, and his proper "place" in the bigger picture of flamenco.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Jan. 18 2015 18:51:22
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Vicente Amigo's music (in reply to rodogtr)
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Don't worry about how fast you are advancing, and for sure don't use Vicente as a standard to reach in five years, ten years, or ever. Unless you aim to play professionally, just relax, practice, and enjoy the ride. You will be surprised how good you will sound if you just keep up a regular practice routine.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Jan. 18 2015 22:02:22
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rodogtr
Posts: 7
Joined: Jan. 18 2015
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RE: Vicente Amigo's music (in reply to Leñador)
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quote:
To give you a little perspective though, I've been playing guitar for 17 years, the last 3-4 have been nothing but flamenco everyday for at least an hour a day and I'm not able to sound like Vicente......and every flamenco teacher I've had has told me I learn quickly....
Unless you plan to drop everything and spend the next 5 years of your life completely immersed in tradition you'll never come close to sounding like Vicente.
Hi Lenador. Thanks for chiming in. Being also a self-taught painter and pianist I'd have to be a bit harsh in this case to defend art and expression in general.
What you suggest me with your post is not perspective, as you put it, but a dead end, in my humble opinion.
To be more precise it would be a dead end for somebody who's new to learning and creating, but I'm not new to that (thanks god or I'd be a bit demotivated after reading your comment) so I can offer the following reflection hoping it will be of some use to new players and artists alike.
We, artists, act from inspiration.
The inspiration comes from many places, inside and outside and, as I'm sure we all know, one of these places can be the teacher or an artist whose work we admire.
If we "try to sound like somebody", as you express, we'll miss the point of being an artist.
That's because what's secretly, deeply and intimately moving somebody is unique... yet it can be shared and felt.
So instead of "wanting to sound like somebody, or paint or whatever" I discovered the precious value of "moving towards somebody's perspective, art or inspiration", absorbing what naturally speaks to you and letting go of what doesn't "stick". This is done by honing and respecting skills, mastery and traditions but also by giving voice to your intuition, with humility.
By doing this I won't sound like Vicente Amigo but I'll sound like myself and this is the purpose of every artist or creative human being.
I've been told that the focus on pulgar in Flamenco comes from the fact that early players couldn't or didn't want to play with the other fingers as the overall "standard" required. Isn't this a beautiful example of finding meaning and confidence in our journey by moving towards inspiration?
It's by having this natural awareness and confidence that you find your musical expression.
If you tell me "I'm not able to sound like Vicente" maybe that means that you forgot about the beautiful journey that YOU are walking while trying to sound like him. Maybe you forgot about the reason you play, what's your message, what's your statement, what's moving you...
Sorry for my paternalistic tone but it's very important to defend our own creative freedom and your message came from a bit of an unhealthy place (artistically speaking obviously!). Nothing personal.
Thanks guys anyway!!
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Date Jan. 18 2015 22:21:53
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rodogtr
Posts: 7
Joined: Jan. 18 2015
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RE: Vicente Amigo's music (in reply to Leñador)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leñador
Sounds like hippie dippy business to me. Sometimes in art there really is a right and wrong way to do things. But time will tell, check back when you sound like Vicente. 
Don't worry Rui, there's plenty of love to go around! Lolol
It may sound a lot like hippie dippy but the message comes directly from my experiences. Let's put it this way, I'm a musician. I mainly write songs with voice and guitar but I also love instrumental music. In my instrumental music I try to borrow concepts, emotions and ideas and use them to create new pieces. I don't need to sound like Vicente because I'm not a flamenco guitarist and it's not my aim to become one, for now. But I respect enormously the craft.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins
You seem to forget something that I used to forget a lot too... not everyone is or wants to be an artist and express his originality.
In fact, most people just want to play their instrument and will be glad if they can sound like someone else.
You know, that was my opinion too but it's changed recently reflecting the discovery that a creative output is indeed quite a healthy, relaxing process given that somebody won't get stuck, obsessed or stressed exclusively with the result.
But I agree with you that it may not be a priority for everybody.
Anyway Lenny I expanded on the subject simply because I thought it was quite clear in my original message that I simply, with humility and respect, wanted to incorporate some technique... for some reason my post has been misunderstood has "I desperately want to become Vicente Amigo, as soon as possible, without making any effort, possibly".
I didn't wanna be so hippy honestly..
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Date Jan. 19 2015 0:02:22
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Vicente Amigo's music (in reply to rodogtr)
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quote:
I've always been fascinated by flamenco though but particularly on the modern style of Vicente Amigo. I like that kind of melodic, deep style he plays. I can't find a lot of material about him, his technique, ecc. Would anybody be so kind and suggest me a sort of a road
You are the one who brought up Vicente Amigo and ask for a "sort of a road." Members of the Foro attempted to offer you advice, and you dismissed them as if they were inconsequential. You specifically dismissed Lenador by stating that, "your message came from a bit of an unhealthy place." If you have already made up your mind about what you are seeking, why request advice from members who are quite willing to accommodate you, and then put them down when they offer assistance. Bad form, bad form indeed.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Jan. 19 2015 0:38:44
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rodogtr
Posts: 7
Joined: Jan. 18 2015
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RE: Vicente Amigo's music (in reply to BarkellWH)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
quote:
I've always been fascinated by flamenco though but particularly on the modern style of Vicente Amigo. I like that kind of melodic, deep style he plays. I can't find a lot of material about him, his technique, ecc. Would anybody be so kind and suggest me a sort of a road
You are the one who brought up Vicente Amigo and ask for a "sort of a road." Members of the Foro attempted to offer you advice, and you dismissed them as if they were inconsequential. You specifically dismissed Lenador by stating that, "your message came from a bit of an unhealthy place." If you have already made up your mind about what you are seeking, why request advice from members who are quite willing to accommodate you, and then put them down when they offer assistance. Bad form, bad form indeed.
Bill
- There's no need to debate or argue, since I've been very honored and thankful to everybody who contributed to the message apart from Lenny's post which touched a sensible area in my experience.
- Humility and respect are a staple of mine, I didn't put down or dismissed anybody, apart from Lenny's opinion. In doing so, I tried to be kind and respectful.
- Everybody offering me assistance has been thanked.
- My full quote was "Would anybody be so kind and suggest me a sort of a roadmap to learn a bit of what he does so maybe I can incorporate his ideas in my music?".
I honestly don't understand why trying to create this sort of polemic when my stance was kind and humble. Also your first post was greatly appreciated and it was basically in line with my opinions. Don't you think?
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Date Jan. 19 2015 0:55:16
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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RE: Vicente Amigo's music (in reply to tri7/5)
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quote:
Hello everybody.
I'm Rudy, 29, Italian born but living in London.
I've been playing guitar for 5-6 years. I started with classical but then focused more on a simple and spontaneous personal fingerstyle. I can't do anything too fancy technically speaking since I always focused more on songwriting, improvisation and composition... a bit less on "performance".
I've always been fascinated by flamenco though but particularly on the modern style of Vicente Amigo. I like that kind of melodic, deep style he plays.
I can't find a lot of material about him, his technique, ecc.
Would anybody be so kind and suggest me a sort of a roadmap to learn a bit of what he does so maybe I can incorporate his ideas in my music?
Do you guys think it would be interesting to start learning proper techniques like rasgueo, alzapua, ecc in a separate setting and then maybe try and pick his songs by ear?
Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated
my best to all
This post bears an uncanny resemblance with the way I introduced myself here a few years ago. I did and still relate to the points you make Rudy. Perhaps, because I too am Italian (?) -living between NYC/SF
I love Vicente Amigo, his music, style, and melodic phrasing; basically, I relate to the Syntax and Diction of his music (if could borrow reference to rhetorical devices, to describe it). And I too indulge, as you do, composition and songwriting.
This is a wonderful forum, really (save for the frequent but generally lighthearted diatribes that ensue; Flamencos are quite passionate, aren't they?)
So Welcome to ForoFlamenco, dude, please share with us your music and guitars (along with your views on Strings, Nails, Tuning Machines etc...)
Giacomo
_____________________________
gj Michelob
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Date Jan. 19 2015 16:08:33
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Mark2
Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: Vicente Amigo's music (in reply to rodogtr)
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I'll try to focus on your specific questions. Without flamenco technique, what you can glean from Vicente are his chord inversions, his melodic ideas, and his chord progressions. Getting his sound would require years of study in all flamenco techniques, and even then, it's not likely. You have to understand he's not exactly an average flamenco guitarist. As to the chord voicings and progressions, you should be able to pick those things up by ear, and if not there are tabs on the internet, some free and some not. Keep in mind that the use of the capo will possibly fool you as far as keys and chord shapes, as will the occasional altered tuning. You say your technique is limited to fairly simple stuff, and that is also unfortunate, because Vicente's technique is very developed. Even players who have learned his material and have excellent flamenco technique somehow fail to sound like him. As I wrote above, you can get his chord voicings and his progressions without flamenco technique. You can absorb his general feeling and melodic ideas, but beyond that, you need to be a flamenco guitarist to take more than that IMO. Hopefully, that will be enough for you though.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rodogtr
Hello everybody.
I'm Rudy, 29, Italian born but living in London.
I've been playing guitar for 5-6 years. I started with classical but then focused more on a simple and spontaneous personal fingerstyle. I can't do anything too fancy technically speaking since I always focused more on songwriting, improvisation and composition... a bit less on "performance".
I've always been fascinated by flamenco though but particularly on the modern style of Vicente Amigo. I like that kind of melodic, deep style he plays.
I can't find a lot of material about him, his technique, ecc.
Would anybody be so kind and suggest me a sort of a roadmap to learn a bit of what he does so maybe I can incorporate his ideas in my music?
Do you guys think it would be interesting to start learning proper techniques like rasgueo, alzapua, ecc in a separate setting and then maybe try and pick his songs by ear?
Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated
my best to all
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Date Jan. 19 2015 17:37:24
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