Musical Brain with improv

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Aretium

Posts: 277
Joined: Oct. 23 2012

Musical Brain with improv

I've developed a picado I have control of at speed (150bm), I only use it for runs in falsetas (which are mostly scales or variants). When "jamming" I suck.

How do I develop a musical brain when playing along to a progression or with a friend, I know little theory and it always just sounds like noodling around. I can play the falsetas to entre dos aguas but they kind of bore me.

What I'm asking is, how can I maximize what I have and make it sound more musical?

Should I listen to more rumba/jazz? When I listen to Paco/Aldi/Mclaughlin they use a lot of dissonance. When to play dissonant passages and when not to?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2015 15:27:33

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Musical Brain with improv (in reply to Aretium)

Ear training.

1.Turn on the radio and play the tune with the singer. The TUNE, cause a tune is a tune is a tune and that is what makes it a tune.
2. Play any tune you can sing in open position working through the keys (from E to Bb through A D G C and F)with a different fingering for every key.(this is ear training )
3. Ignore second hand advice from people who can't really play.
4. Listen to really good improvisers (they will almost certainly not be playing HM or rhumba or as fast as possible at all times).
5. Sing the melody you would like to be improvising on your instrument whilst strumming through the chords record it and then work it out by ear from your own vocal. This will mean you will find out what you really really want from yourself.

Good luck.

.

D

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2015 15:45:00

Aretium

Posts: 277
Joined: Oct. 23 2012

RE: Musical Brain with improv (in reply to guitarbuddha)

Pfff so I have to work to get better? never heard such rubbish ;P

Thanks buddha.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2015 16:24:39

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Musical Brain with improv (in reply to Aretium)

Hi Aretium, I'm not a great improvisor, but I do find it easier in freer styles like tarantas where you're free from compas and can focus on exloring other aspects. Helps to alternate between improved and studied falsettas to avoid degenerating too far into fakemenco. Also try mixing up the techniques - just playing picardo is gonna start sounding boring pretty quick, there's a whole bunch of techniques and you need to be able to switch between all of them.

Enjoy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2015 18:36:00

Cloth Ears

Posts: 152
Joined: Apr. 26 2005

RE: Musical Brain with improv (in reply to Aretium)

You are trying to run before you can walk: don't worry about that; we all do that!

More important than anything is learning the compas. Once you have the feel of a palo's compas, and you know what scale it uses predominantly, then you may apply your admirable picado and other techniques in a more improvisational way.

Personally I started off studying Led Zeppelin and other blues inspired rock music that I learned to improvise to. That early learning process has given me the ability to jam to almost anything that I understand the structure to. If I listen to any pop song, I can jam the chord/bass/melody to it within minutes. I would have more trouble doing that with a modulating piece of jazz. The key thing I am saying is understand what you are jamming to and play along to recordings to gain experience.

Beyond that: study theory. There are loads of free web based study resources available if you search google. Eventually you will understand why some intervals provide useful dissonance and be able to used them in your improvisation. You said it: no pain, no gain.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2015 20:55:26

chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010

RE: Musical Brain with improv (in reply to Aretium)

Some good comments here. Guitarbuddha's advice can last you for years.

If I may add:
I'd focus especially on making MELODIES. Speed is like a spice - if you use it too much everything'll taste like salt. Make sure you're able to sing most of what you play.

Blues/pentatonic scale is a good primer for improv (Jazz/Paco/Aldi/Mclaughlin is much harder). Do you know the 12-bar?

You use dissonance when it sounds good.

Yes listen to more Jazz. In fact, listen to lots of other kinds of music besides flamenco. Keep going until you feel like you 'know what the deal is' with each genre.

quote:

3. Ignore second hand advice from people who can't really play.

Actually the best comments come from people who can't play at all.
If you're boring them - do something different

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2015 7:06:18

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Musical Brain with improv (in reply to Aretium)

If you want to do flamenco jamming(improvisation) I guess it's limited to rumba, but there's alot of rumba backing tracks on youtube, practice on those for a month and you'll learn alot. Also learning some jazz or blues basics can help alot, as knowing theory is a great tool in flamenco also.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2015 12:29:15

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Musical Brain with improv (in reply to Aretium)

My immediate advice would be to forget the scales until you can play and connect the arpeggios between the chords.

Scales aren't the solution for beginners, they are part of the problem. Think of scales as a complement (added notes) to the chord that you're playing in... but most of all, start by really knowing and listening to what that chord is made of (arpeggio) by consciously knowing (by number and sound) the intervals, that will train your ear and your fretboard knowledge at the same time.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2015 12:58:20

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Musical Brain with improv (in reply to Aretium)

quote:

I can play the falsetas to entre dos aguas but they kind of bore me.

facepalm..

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2015 17:15:40

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Musical Brain with improv (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

facepalm..

Offtopic:

This forum really needs the facepalm smiley.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2015 17:22:41

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Musical Brain with improv (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

This forum really needs the facepalm smiley.

And kindness, you can never have too much kindness. Mind you I am no paragon.

Sometimes people say ' You can take a horse to water but you cant make it think.' The solution is seldom to take a p1ss in the water where the horse, and everyone else, can see you.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2015 19:43:16

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Musical Brain with improv (in reply to guitarbuddha)

LOL

That's not what I meant.

There's another forum where I usually go that has a nice facepalm smiley, similar to the ones we have here. I think it's better to have the facepalm option rather than having people writing about why they feel "facepalm" about it without being asked to....that's how ****storms usually start.

It's not that linear, but I think you get the point.

edit: Take Todd's example for instance. A quote and a facepalm is enough to make a point.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2015 20:04:49

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Musical Brain with improv (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

' You can take a horse to water but you cant make it think.' The solution is seldom to take a p1ss in the water where the horse, and everyone else, can see you.

D.

I should have prefixed that, as we all should with all our advice and in particular the unsolicited variety......'NOTE TO SELF'.

d.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2015 20:08:52

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Musical Brain with improv (in reply to guitarbuddha)

The OP asked for opinions, to me a quote and a facepalm is enough to say "You might want to think about what you're saying here".

But this is my point of view, maybe others feel different about it or take 'facepalm' as an offense.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2015 20:14:41

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Musical Brain with improv (in reply to Aretium)

instead of noodling, think about a cool and very deliberiate rhythm you can execute. Could be something you strum or whatever that fits the piece you are improvsing over. Apply some notes to it. Do this over and over with different notes but always with a very confident controlled rhythm and execution. You will be surprised how your "wrong" notes start sounding "right" when you play with a lot of rhythmic conviction. If you are having trouble with rhythm part, think about the "boring falsetas" you are so familiar with. Play the same rhythm of those falestas but in a completely different part of the neck with different notes.
Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2015 22:06:26