question about saddel profile !!

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Haithamflamenco

Posts: 927
Joined: Mar. 6 2007
From: Bahrain

question about saddel profile !!

dear all luthiers,

maybe this question was asked before in the foro, I apologies,

I have a question about the saddle shape and profile:

I notice that lots of classical guitar have a different saddle profile, for example some guitars the saddle slot is not straight and its angled, and some the slot is straight but the g string contact area is shaped differently from the rest of strings.

also some saddles contact area had a dome shape and some had a sharp angle,

I would be glad to understand this theory

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

Bahrain is my country and Andalucia is my dream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2014 6:29:43

rojarosguitar

Posts: 243
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: question about saddel profile !! (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

I'm not a luthier, but have some experience as to saddles.
The setback of the g string position is to compensate for the intonation problems of typical nylon g strings, especially for thicker and stiffer ones that tend to intonate too high at higher positions. Whether it is necessary depends on your guitar and strings you use. For fluorocarbon strings it is quite likely sn overcompensation.

Whether the saddle bone is arced sideways or not depends mostly on the issue whether your fretboard is radiused or not.

The edge profile should be so that there is a clear edge towards the fretboard, but not too sharp, otherwise string will break, especially the d string.
To make the portion behind the edge round is maybe nice but difficult. It should be taken care that the slope is less than the breaking angle of the string but so that the strings do not continue flat behind the edge because otherwise you'l get almost certainly some buzzes.

One of the most underestimated issues is the exact fit. The side standing on the top needs to be perfectly straight and perpendicular to the sides going up ( with the exception of slanted slots which are rather rare and need to be taken care by the luthier who knows the exact angle ). The bone should fit into the slot without any resistance or need to be pressed in, but also without any play, when you try to rock it back and forth. If it sits too tight it will ruin the trebles, especially the e-1 string. If it sits too loosly, it will add some nonharmonic overtones making the trebles unnicely harsh. It should slide into the slot easily and not fall out of the slot when you turn the guitar top down. Your saddle bone should never be fitted with strings on.
My 2 cents.

_____________________________

Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2014 16:40:27

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: question about saddel profile !! (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

My default STARTING profile for a new saddle top is to have it just slightly sloping back from the front, nearly flat.
I then set string height at the nut first and then at the saddle.
Once that is done I will check and adjust the intonation by filing back the front of the saddle at an angle to move the string break point back.
Only when that is complete, I work the saddle from the break point back towards the tie block, giving it a little more angle and rounding the back edge, so that It has full contact but a definite break point.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2014 21:33:23

Haithamflamenco

Posts: 927
Joined: Mar. 6 2007
From: Bahrain

RE: question about saddel profile !! (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

quote:

intonation

what is intonation ? and how to setup the intonation of the guitar?

_____________________________

Bahrain is my country and Andalucia is my dream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2014 6:55:50

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: question about saddel profile !! (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

Saddle profile and intonation are two different things. But they are connected, and this is why the saddle is sometimes adjusted to suit the G-string.

But intonation has been discussed a lot before here on the foro.
Just do a search and you'll find plenty of information.

_____________________________

Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2014 12:40:01

Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: question about saddel profile !! (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

Intonation is a really big topic
Basically it is getting the guitar to play in tune on the fretted notes.
A major method in achieving this is adjust saddle break point position so that the open string and the fretted 12th are both in tune.
If the 12th fret is sharp with the open in tune, then the break point on the top of the saddle is moved back towards the tie block. then retune and recheck etc.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2014 20:28:51