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RE: Question for everyone
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Grisha
Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
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RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian)
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Unfortunately, I don't think that proper picado, fast and loud, can be performed with no tension. Play a single loud note with a fast motion, as if you were playing some picado run. Feel the amount of effort this involves, the pressure or force you apply to the string. Do it with both fingers. Now try continuously pressing on the table with the same amount of effort in both fingers. Hard, isn't it? This is what you feel overall when you play very fast picado, where you have no time to relax your muscles. You are bound to get tired soon unless you are very very strong in your forearm, which I am by the way. If this is the kind of tension you feel when you play scales, than it's normal. If your feeling is different, you might be doing something wrong. I might be able to help you if you tell me more.
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Date Dec. 28 2005 18:05:31
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Mark2
Posts: 1862
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian)
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Thanks Miguel and Grisha. I'm happy to see that the tension is normal. I do run out of power way too soon, but also have very strong forearms-probably just not the right muscle. I seem to have more speed and better tone when I strike at an angle, but I have less control at slower speeds this way. I'm not sure if I should stick to one angle or try to develop the ability to play all three (hand angled forward, backward, and straight) Also, do you think practicing alternate patterns such as i,a - m,a - a,m,i have a big effect on your ability to play the standard i, m ? How much time relative to the regular i, m would you devote to these patterns? And do you think that alternating picado practise with tremelo or arpeggio relieves the stress on the tendons, or is it better to simply rest? Perhaps I'm just not putting in enough time. How much time per day do you think it takes to consistanly improve picado? Sorry for all these questions, but this technique has been my nemesis for twenty years and I apreciate any advice you can offer.
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Date Dec. 28 2005 18:29:24
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Grisha
Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
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RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian)
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Nail shaping and economy of attack are the keys to playing fast scales. I personally do not spend any extra time practicing i,m scales. I play all Segovia's scales with 3 fingers, i,m,a and a,m,i starting with every finger. This makes my right hand more balanced. I also used to do i,a and m,a combinations, but now I find them less useful. Well, i,a are great to practice because they are just as fast, but a,m just tense you up. The idea is to make all your fingers equally strong, and 3-finger scales do the job nicely. And yes, you should always rest between exercises.
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Date Dec. 28 2005 18:46:30
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sorin popovici
Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania
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RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian)
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Hi Grisha ! I would like to ask u for some things too. Btw , nice to see u here on this foro...I am from Romania , if u happen to play sometime in Romania please say smth.I would mean much to me to meet just for a couple of minutes or so. When u play exercises for shifts ...what exercises do u use? Also u have uploaded some time ago a little mp3 with the famous flight of the bumblebee Rimsky Korsakov(please excuse my spelling on this name). U promised then ,that u can suply a tab for that one ,can u help with this one(i still havent found a tab or score that I can trust) Also about technique,when u do scales what scales do u do?Diminished ,major ,minor, augmented,modes etc. and what patterns thirds (c,d,e,d,e,g )...i mean if u happen to have some little good ideas of some exercises that would help. Also about arpeggios ...do u find that beeing perpendicular on the strings gives u more speed? I mean ....not having the wrist outward,but beeing like almost parallel to the face of the guitar ? Well , I have lots of question ...but more importantly how u're doing ? Do u study classical in SUA? how's it going ,managed to get a scholarship ...things like that? Ok, just one more ..do u do solfeggio and study harmony on piano ..do they teach u this at school or u already knew it or it's just guitar for u?Ear training can u do things like recognize this progression ,recognize the chord write the rhytm?
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Date Dec. 28 2005 18:57:16
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian)
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Shroomy, I'll try! It's kind of an abstract concept, a metaphor which may not be valid for everyone. But it makes a lot of sense to me and it has helped. By the way, I agree with G. about nail shape (not that he needs my agreement! :)). I recently started "ramping" and it has contributed to more ease. Shroomy, try to look at the string in a different light, not as an obstacle or a wire that must be fought, but as a simple, light piece of nylon that just needs to be displaced, or moved. As an experiment, brush the string with your i finger. When I say brush, pretend the tip of the finger is like the tip of a brush--flexible, soft. There is almost no force involved. (as an aside, you will probably firm the fingertip later, much later). It is also sort of like a scrape, but to me it is much more brush. If brush doesn't work, try scrape. In my particular technique, the finger is held almost completely straight. this ends up giving you lots of leverage. Grisha's metaphor about balancing the fingertips on the strings is highly valid as well. If you were walking on the strings, would you have bent legs or straight? The good thing about straight fingers is that a tiny motion at the big knuckle will lead to a larger motion at the end (I think). Anyways, Paco obviously doesn't play exactly this way. It looks like Sabicas and Pepe Romero do, as well as old-school picado flamenco players. Brushing also works for rasgueados. Say, a downward p stroke. Don't strike the guitar aggressively. Pull or drag the thumb across the strings very lightly as if you were playing the harp. That is the motion. Now once you get a little control, you actually want to pull it with a little snap. There is not really more force, just more speed. That speed of course requires more force and will naturally push the strings lower. But if you keep the idea of brushing, it helps marshall what force you need economically. But the picado and rasgueado are really the same idea, to me. A brush, the fingertips rolling, not being clawed or poked. Think of how a harp player looks...so gentle and relaxed, as they brush the fingertips. I think this is a good way to start. On the other hand, combine this with daily Scott Tennant speedbursts and string crossings, starting with 5 minutes and build to 15 or more. Eventually the stacatto feeling will integrate with the brushing, and you will be in business. I practicing string crossing for several minutes each day, and speed bursts for about 10. I also play a lot of licks and jam once a week at my gig for 3 hours (rumbas mostly). Once you get the feeling that the string is rolling effortlessly off the fingertips, you can experiment with stiffening it and getting more volume. Playing "up" really is a metaphor for using efficiency. These strings are light and do not have to be forced. So much of our effort and strength is wasted unless we find a highly economical way of playing. If we are not using our resources most efficiently, no way can we play a demanding technique like picado at 144 bpm sixteenths or more. I hope this helps....keep asking questions if you have any!
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Date Dec. 28 2005 19:03:32
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Grisha
Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
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RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian)
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Sorin, I am sorry, I lost that file with my bumblebee and have to write it down again. For shifts I now play Segovia's scales at about 170, some spots from Rodrigo, the minor (octave) part of 17th caprice of Paganini, and Scarlatti sonata K. 159 at a very fast tempo. I recommend practicing the scales you already play, but adding one note at a time: first 2, first 3, etc. and then the same thing from the end of the scale: last 2, last 3, etc. I never questioned my arpeggio technique because it has always been easy for me. To answer your question about the benefits of either position I have to do a lot of analysis. Villa-Lobos study № 1 and Giuliani's study № 5 and Nana by Mario Escudero have been part of my daily practice routine for more than 20 years. I am finishing up my Master's degree at NEC. I have already applied for a Doctoral program there. Yes, I had to do a lot of harmony and solfege in my undergraduate years, now I get to choose the classes I am taking. I take every composition and world music class I can fit into my schedule. Yes, I can write a chorale, compose a fugal counterpoint, label the harmonies in chord progressions, indicate non-chord tones, explain modulations, outline the form of a composition, write a dictation, solfege things in 7 clefs, but it all takes so much time to practice that I am glad I don't have to work on it anymore. Saves my time and energy for the guitar.
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Date Dec. 28 2005 19:41:05
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sorin popovici
Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania
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RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian)
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aha ...but (and I know he's reading this) but for some reason...he just dont wanna show it. I have this little theory ...people who played electric usually have better left hands than the classical players (Toddk,Henrik(Duende),Ricardo)...but they struggle to teach their right .Ricardo have succeeded to train his right ..in the fingerstyle way,but still I think he is not mad about tremolo(cause it's so so "classical") The classical players usually have this other fobia ....left hand exercises :D. Anyway ,please ...that's just my opinion (I'm thinking to pick play some riffs to get my left in shape )Hope I didnt offend anyone with my observation ...but it's very clear from all the people say (henrik said in one post "no trouble with left", Todd in this thread "neah, no scales for me",Grisha u say "no arpeggios" that's easy ....well ,yeah ..after 2000 rehearsals of etude no.1 ) Classical players always say ...this little arpeggio,oh that's so easy. I'm gonna get my *ss kicked for this post.... ,but i'm use to it by now
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Date Dec. 28 2005 20:40:53
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