Advice about travelling to Spain with a Brazilian Rosewood Guitar

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hvymetal1234

Posts: 20
Joined: Apr. 11 2013

Advice about travelling to Spain wit...

Has anyone on the forum travelled to Spain with a newer Brazilian guitar? What would one need to do to jump through the proper hoops?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 10 2014 21:46:10

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234)

Well, in this aspect, Spain is like elsewhere:
If they stop you and ask, you need cites papers.

Braz rosewood is not the best for travelling. It creates burocratical problems and its "nervous" about humidity changes and cracks easily.

Consider bringing another guitar.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2014 7:50:58

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234)

Lots of people take guitars in and out of Spain everyday. Many of them are rosewood guitars. There are many types of 'rosewood' and there are various species referred to as 'Brazilian'.
But how many people can correctly identify them?
If anyone asks, which seems unlikely, just tell them its Indian and stick to your story.

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Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2014 8:57:15

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234)

As I understand it one needs to get a "passport" (read, multi-page application and a high fee) for one's guitar if said guitar contains D. nigra. Failure to acquire said permit can result in confiscation of one's guitar. There are a boat load of horror stories of guitars, bows, orchestra instruments being grabbed by CITES "police" and an equal number of horror stories of legit instruments being grabbed by over zealous CITES "police". Once grabbed it is on the owner to prove the instrument is legit. To make matters worse, the European Union upped the ante by increasing the "legal" date from 1992 to 1947.

The upshot is, cross a border at your own risk. If you do not have a permit and the guitar is grabbed by the CITES "police" nasty things can happen, the least being the loss of your guitar.

A few links for fun reading

http://www.fretboardjournal.com/features/magazine/guitar-lover%E2%80%99s-guide-cites-conservation-treaty

http://www.cites.org/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2014 11:38:55

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234)

Leave it at home, you may be able to get into Spain, but you may not be able to get it back into the US. I'm presuming you are traveling out of the US??

Most of the time you will be fine at borders, but why take a chance with a nice guitar. There have been too many bad reports lately to chance it. If you do travel with it get your papers in order AND take duplicates to travel with in case your luggage or bag gets lost.

Dealing with customs check points has become a game of chance. It is a matter of moving through a customs gate and not knowing how stringent the checks will be that day. Sometimes customs officers they go in depth and really look and other times you get waived through, but it is not possible to know what will happen. As Keith said there has been cause for concern the past year.

Think carefully on this. The bottom line is if you travel without the proper documentation for this wood you are breaking U.S. laws and some international trade treaties, and maybe the laws of the EU. If a customs official wants to press the issue the law is on their side unless you have papers for your guitar.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2014 13:29:31

bernd

Posts: 680
Joined: Feb. 15 2004

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to krichards)

quote:

ORIGINAL: krichards

Lots of people take guitars in and out of Spain everyday. Many of them are rosewood guitars. There are many types of 'rosewood' and there are various species referred to as 'Brazilian'.
But how many people can correctly identify them?
If anyone asks, which seems unlikely, just tell them its Indian and stick to your story.

You may think there are only fools working. Especially the German customs is very focused on natural products and does know, what´s on the list. If they are not sure, they call a specialist to let him check. The times where you could have told the customs officers fairy-tales are completely over for years. If you don´t have the papers, then you can be asured the guitar will be withheld. An expensive fun. Game Over.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2014 16:56:35

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to bernd)

For sure spaniards don't care. It's the US where the problems arise with everything even slightly illegal

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2014 17:04:14

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234)

some interesting reading about cites enforcement in spain. all it takes is one hot shot cites police or police wanna be and there goes a few thousand dollars down the toilet.

http://www.cites.es/en/Pages/default.aspx

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2014 17:54:14

hvymetal1234

Posts: 20
Joined: Apr. 11 2013

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234)

Thanks for the excellent advice everyone. I'll bring the blanca.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2014 18:17:54

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234)

How does one obtain documentation for a guitar, and a permit if needed? I looked at all links and did not find anything specific.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2014 20:46:40

Cloth Ears

Posts: 152
Joined: Apr. 26 2005

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 11 2014 21:06:07

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2014 21:05:47

Cloth Ears

Posts: 152
Joined: Apr. 26 2005

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hvymetal1234

Thanks for the excellent advice everyone. I'll bring the blanca.

The blanca weighs much less anyway

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2014 21:07:47

flyhere

Posts: 121
Joined: Dec. 17 2012

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 21 2015 22:59:18

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2014 22:24:18

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to Ricardo)

If you call CITES in your own country, they tell you what to do and how to get.
It is a lot, will need some time, but you get the right documents for the guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2014 5:40:45

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234)

quote:

Thanks for the excellent advice everyone. I'll bring the blanca.

That was a very wise choice. For several reasons.

And just for the record, Spanish costums are a lot more strict now that they used to be.

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2014 7:26:46

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Ok it looks as if I should be more careful in future.
I'll avoid travelling with a rosewood guitar, and stick to my blanca

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Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2014 8:20:32

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to krichards)

One option is to put a false label with early construction year

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2014 15:25:23

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to tele)

quote:

One option is to put a false label with early construction year

And run the real risk of being pulled into a secondary interrogation with a customs official who knows something about guitars and wood, and who asks questions you are unable to answer with certainty. You will then not only face penalties for violating CITES, you will also be charged with forging documents to circumvent the law. Expect a hefty fine and possibly prison time if you are caught.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2014 15:41:37

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to BarkellWH)

In the 1970s I used to return from Europe via JFK Airport in New York.

On one trip I had with me two new Jose Ramirez 1a classicals I had bought for friends. i declared them, and said I would pay the customs duty. At the cashier's window, he moistened the back of a a $100 American Express Traveler's Cheque, causing the ink to smear.

"Why did you do that?" I asked.

"To tell whether it's counterfeit."

"I know, but why would I declare the guitars at full value, then pay with a counterfeit check. I could have just lied about the price and showed you a fake receipt."

"You never know what people will get up to."

The Customs inspectors at JFK generally ranged from gruff to rude. I usually bought a handful of Cuban cigars in Europe, and put them in my coat pockets to pass through Customs. Cuban cigars have been embargoed in the USA for decades. Opening my suitcase for the inspector, I was disappointed to see that I had absent-mindedly left the cigars in it.

The agent pounced on them. He held them up and asked, "What are these?"

"Cuban cigars," I replied.

He handed them to me and said, "Put 'em in your pocket, stupid."

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2014 17:19:56