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RE: Mad Max
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: Mad Max (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
I am not nearly as familiar with U.S. government policy toward genocide as I am with attitudes of "Anglo" Texans of my great-grandparents' generation, and of the resulting Texas government policies, both as a republic and as a state. You will note that there are very few Indian reservations in Texas, and the few which exist are very small.
No doubt about the attitudes, Richard. But I think that attitude was shared by many living in the borderlands of Arizona and other states and territories (not just Texas), as opposed to official U.S. Government policy of forcing Indians onto rservations. Texas has very few Indian reservations, but I'm not sure that is a consequence of Texans' attitudes toward Indians. In the first place, the major Indian presence in Texas was the Commanche, and the Commanche entered Texas from the area of the Southern Rockies. When the Commanche established themselves in Texas, they drove out many other Indian tribes and groups, most prominently the Mescalero Apache. Then the Federal Government in the 19th century drove the Commanche out of Texas and onto reservations in Oklahoma. The placement of Indian reservations was primarily the responsibility of the Federal Government, not the states. That might go a long way in explaining why there are fewer Indian reservations in Texas.
Regarding the Commanche forcing the Apache out, it is a historical fact that many Indian tribes and groups were subjugated and forced out of their territory by other Indian tribes. A prime example in Arizona is the Navajo who, along with the Apache (both Athabaskans), came down from Canada to their current territory in Arizona, New Mexico, and Utah. Both Navajo and Apache were nomadic and aggrssive toward tribes existing in the region. They made war against the sedentary tribes such as the Hopi, Zuni, and other tribes who had been in the region for centuries. In fact, the Hopi, Zuni, and others, who we now call "Pueblo Indians," established themselves in their iconic cliff dwellings, not because of the Spanish, but prior to the Spanish arrival in order to protect themselves from marauding Navajo and Apache. The myth of "peaceful" Indians living in harmony with their surroundings and their fellows is, in many cases, just that--a myth. It was true in some cases, and in some cases not.
By the way, if you want to read a very good book on how certain vigilantes and "scalp-hunters" operated along the Texas-Mexico borderlands, I highly recommend Cormac McCarthy's "Blood Meridian." It is the tale of "The Judge" and his band roaming the borderlands and killing Indians. It is not easy reading, and the violence inherent in the story is relentless. But I think it is the best book written to date by McCarhy.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Nov. 30 2014 19:08:00
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Mad Max (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
My problem was that it was difficult for me to avoid associating the savagery depicted in Apocalypto with that of my time in Central America.
The Miskito Indians, living along the coast of Honduras and Nicaragua, have had a hard go of it (particularly in Nicaragua) regardless of who was in charge. During Somoza's regime they were abused and worse. And when the Marxist Sandinista's took over Nicaragua in 1979, the Miskito continued to be abused and worse. When the FSLN (Sandinista National Liberation Front) assumed power under Daniel Ortega, Tomas Borge, a prominent FSLN commander, was made Minister of the Interior (in charge of internal security and police, not, as in the U.S., of national parks). Sandinista policy was to bend the Miskito to Sandinista policies via "Comites de Defensa Sandinista."
At the time, I was assigned to the American Embassy in Tegucigalpa, Honduras. Along with our Embassy in Managua, Nicaragua, we followed events unfolding in Nicaragua closely, especially in debriefing and gaining information from Nicaraguans who had arrived in Honduras in order to escape Sandinista policies. Several Miskito groups formed guerrilla units to fight the Sandinista central government and its policy of expropriating Miskito land and nationalizing it. Borge, the Interior Minister, ordered Sandinista troops to eliminate Miskito communities and groups who refused to accept Sandinista policies. In February 1982, an estimated 80 Miskito villages were burned to the ground, women raped, and other atrocities committed.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 30 2014 19:32:37
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Mad Max (in reply to runner)
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quote:
What the world really needs is far fewer languages (do we really need to restore a viable Cornish-speaking population in Cornwall?), and far less obsession with "ethnic pride and diversity".
You make a good point, Runner. Language and ethnic "pride" appear to be as destructive forces in the world as religion. Just look at Quebec and Canada a few years ago; or the Flemish speakers vs. the French-speaking Walloons in Belgium; or the Catalans and Basques in Spain; and probably a hundred other linguistic and ethnic groups that would like "autonomy" and "independence" around the world. And in the United States what was once the goal of people of good will for inclusiveness has for the past 30 years gone in the opposite direction, resulting in ethnic enclaves in everything from university dormitories to the absurd calls for the American Southwest to be returned to Mexico. And, of course, in many cases "identity politics" seems to trump rational thought in the political process.. I agree that what we need is less linguistic and ethnic fragmentation, not more!
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 1 2014 1:36:45
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runner
Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA
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RE: Mad Max (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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Until recently, the great and differentiating hallmark of Americs has been its ability to absorb large numbers of diverse peoples and eventually turn them into Americans. I personally have no particular pride in any of my several ancestries, or even in any of my ancestors for that matter. I do (objectively, I believe) have a certain special affection for the British because of their halting, unsteady, often retrograde, yet ultimately progressive lurch over the centuries toward representative government, that has been an inspiration to others over the years, and triggered our own experiments here in America. But otherwise I have no enthusiasm for protestations of ethnic or liguistic or religious "pride" beyond merely enjoying one's ethnicity as a harmless hobby--fancy dress, food, music, whatnot; much of it (like a lot of "Scottish" rigmarole) the product of 19th century boosterism. I like to hope that most people will think highly enough of themselves as unique individuals so as to not need to rely upon the uncertain foundation of one's "ethnicity" for validation. Where these extrapersonal loyalties get completely out of hand is fully explored in Eric Hoffer's landmark study of the fanatical mind, "The True Believer". We see the results of this pathology in the Mideast today.
On that note, I will observe that, whatever one thinks of the Assad regime in Syria, I predict that the Alewite minority there will literally fight to the death against what they perceive (very probably correctly) as a fanatical Sunni jihad against them that seeks their extermination. For similar reasons the Iranians will not give up their nuclear ambitions, especially with an increasingly unstable Sunni-dominated and Taliban-menaced nuclear Pakistan next door.
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Date Dec. 1 2014 3:31:42
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