RE: Question about compas

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Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Question about compas (in reply to ZaidRockso)

quote:

Would you please play just one Alegrias compas, played slowly, and count the beat numbers out loud, naturally starting on Six. Thanks for your help.

Certainly!

When I play it within context I start on 12 with your basic alegrias/cantinas E on 12 and B on 3, I don't consider this portion as being part of the falseta, then I golpe on 6 to start the falseta, I play for 12 beats only minding my accents of 12 and 3, then the golpe begins my back to regular rhythm/compas strumming on 7 until I end on 10, like most cierres.
That clear things up??

The statement was that you could start a falseta on 6, not that you could organize your entire alegrias around the idea of beginning your rhythmic cycles at 6.

Maybe what your getting at is what actually constitutes a falseta??? Like the battle of beard and stubble???

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 4:02:13

ZaidRockso

Posts: 64
Joined: Dec. 20 2013

RE: Question about compas (in reply to ZaidRockso)

Wow alot of details and help here, really appreciate this, This will help alot! Thanks!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 5:10:43

machopicasso

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

Something as obvious as that doesn't require an explanation.

In fairness to the other posters, if it's as obvious to you as you claim then you should be able to explain it clearly.

Reading through this thread, it looks like people are speaking past one another. Perhaps the apparent disagreement can be resolved if we distinguish the following two things:

1) The starting-point for the compas (which starts on either 12 or 1);

and

2) The starting-point for the falseta (i.e. when the guitarist comes in).

The falseta can begin on any beat, as long as the compas is respected and its starting-point on 1 (or 12) is recognized.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 6:33:22

athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

You have now said that there are twelve beats in this Alegrias falseta that begins on beat Six

No, obviously not Ramon. Are you able to read bad english

6+X*12
your falseta is X,5 compases long.
Like I've said I wouldn't do this, because to me, everything I do sounds like a remate starting on six and the falseta starting on 1 or 12 actually, but if someone finds a nice melody or whatever and starting on 6 makes sense musical-wise, why not?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 7:24:32

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ramon Amira

quote:

In this example:
Start compas on
Beat 12 or 1 (whichever you like) -> beat 5 - silence,
falseta starts at beat 6, ends on 10.

I think that works

I'm trying really hard to understand this. Please help me. How many total beats are there in this hypothetical Alegrias falseta?

Ramon

There's 12 beats, 12-11 or 1-12
I really think u can start a falseta whenever u want as along as it's in compas,
There's silence in the beginning and the falseta comes in and finishes at the end of the compas cycle, then next compas cycle starts.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 8:07:05

tri7/5

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ramon Amira

Andy - I couldn't agree with you more. Yes, you can do whatever you like - as long as it's in compas. Remember that last part.

Per your above you said you couldn't start it on 6, but now you say you can do whatever you like?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 13:30:22

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Question about compas (in reply to tri7/5)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ramon Amira

Andy - I couldn't agree with you more. Yes, you can do whatever you like - as long as it's in compas. Remember that last part.

Per your above you said you couldn't start it on 6, but now you say you can do whatever you like?

Please read my post properly. I said I agree with what Andy said - "You can do whatever you like - AS LONG AS IT IS IN COMPAS." I even stressed that last part, as I had done previously, because if we're not talking about playing in compas then it's a pointless discussion. I assumed that anyone who knows anything about flamenco would understand that I had to be referring in my original statement only to playing in compas

Ramon

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 17:31:59

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

Did I play out of compas Ramon?? (Maybe off beat a lil but I was rushed and I hate recording. lol)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 17:51:22

koenie17

Posts: 438
Joined: Feb. 25 2011
From: España

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

Of course you can start a falseta at six or seven, like a small picado remate!
as long as it is in compas of course! An intro for alegrías could be played more freely including the falsetas.
I don´t understand what starting a falseta on six has to do with playing in compas?? You can start about anywhere and still be in compas.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 18:13:05

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

I am always willing to learn something new. It would be very helpful to me if anyone who feels you can - while staying in compas - begin an Alegrias falseta on Six, would please just write out the numbered beats of one Alegrias falseta, number by number, beginning with number Six. That's easy enough to do. Thanks for your help.

Ramon

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 18:18:19

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

I am always willing to learn something new. It would be very helpful to me if anyone who feels you can - while staying in compas - begin an Alegrias falseta on Six, would please just write out the numbered beats of one Alegrias falseta, number by number, beginning with number Six. That's easy enough to do. Thanks for your help.

Why are you side stepping me man...
I did exactly what was posed. You know as well as I that playing it is just as well as writing it. I even counted the whole thing while I played.
Sure my composition isn't great but it's not WRONG, it's on compas, and proves the point. You CAN start a falseta on 6.
Am I crazy here??????

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 18:45:34

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

quote:

I am always willing to learn something new. It would be very helpful to me if anyone who feels you can - while staying in compas - begin an Alegrias falseta on Six, would please just write out the numbered beats of one Alegrias falseta, number by number, beginning with number Six. That's easy enough to do. Thanks for your help.

Why are you side stepping me man...
I did exactly what was posed. You know as well as I that playing it is just as well as writing it. I even counted the whole thing while I played.
Sure my composition isn't great but it's not WRONG, it's on compas, and proves the point. You CAN start a falseta on 6.
Am I crazy here??????

No, I did not comment on your compas. I couldn't hear the count on the video. I'm just trying to grasp this idea. I would just like once to see one Alegrias falseta counted out in writing, number by number, starting on Six. Please help me here. Thanks - I really appreciate it.

Ramon

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 19:01:22

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

I couldn't hear the count on the video.

It's very loud and clear. I'm done..........

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 19:11:59

athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

What a troll.

quote:

I would just like once to see one Alegrias falseta counted out in writing, number by number, starting on Six. Please help me here. Thanks - I really appreciate it.

No time for that.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 19:25:44

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Question about compas (in reply to athrane77)

quote:

What a troll.

Hey jof -

I've been a gentleman throughout this discussion, and I see no call or need for your comments. I have politely asked three or four times for the simplest of posts - just write out the beats of an Alegrias falseta number by number, starting with six. You could have written that out in the same amount of time it took to post your snide remark.

Ramon

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 19:39:15

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

just write out the beats of an Alegrias falseta number by number

What does this even mean????

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 19:54:56

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

The way you count, it's so melodic...

..it shows you have feelings under that beard.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 20:04:03

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

Hahaha, and I give a lil shoulder baile on 12!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 20:11:43

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

hey that was great, Leñador , i really liked it .. in fact i would like to see it printed in the 3D all colour version .. and I would like you to personally come to my house and count it out to me , bring a few famous flamenco guitarists just to help us all keep things right
JOF's not allowed to come as he is a obviously a meany....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 20:46:30

tri7/5

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ramon Amira

Please read my post properly.
Ramon

Your post said you cannot start an Alegrias falseta on 6. That's all that was said. You said it as an absolute, nothing was misinterpreted. If you would like to expand on it that's fine but that's what you said.

"You cannot start an Alegrias falseta on six.

Ramon"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 20:51:09

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

hey that was great, Leñador , i really liked it .. in fact i would like to see it printed in the 3D all colour version .. and I would like you to personally come to my house and count it out to me , bring a few famous flamenco guitarists just to help us all keep things right
JOF's not allowed to come as he is a obviously a meany....

lololol
We should be sure and hold hands though so we can really be sure we don't get into any trouble.

That's not the american way to spell color btw.

lolol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 21:21:04

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

Hey it feels good to have a good old-fashioned compás debate here no the Foro!

Here is what I meant by starting an Alegrias falseta on 6.

I play 2 compases of strumming, ending on 10. Beats 11-5 are silent and the falseta begins on 6 with the first G# chord landing on 10. Then come 4 more cycles of 12 in the falseta.
The half compas of silence or tapado is not something I would use every day, but it certainly CAN be done for effect if desired. Those kinds of things can be useful for accompanying baile too.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 21:25:38

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

Awesome!
That indeed works!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 21:32:27

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

Lenador's example is great as well

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 21:34:44

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

Forgive my confusion but isn't this just about starting the compás cycle halfway through, as an intro? My head hurts

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 21:55:02

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

@ Leñador
exactly but Americans get Burglerized and we just get burgled..

anyway theres lot of words Americans cant spell ,,...so in this labour of humour I shall try to manoeuvre my American neighbour and centre the dialogue with a catalogue of defence ,to add a litre of flavour into the fibre of things ......

yesss....

..i love words ...

Oh and nice one Andy Culpepper etc etc .....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 22:22:38

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Question about compas (in reply to El Kiko)

quote:

so in this labour of humour I shall try to manoeuvre my American neighbour and centre the dialogue with a catalogue of defence ,to add a litre of flavour into the fibre of things ......

I read somewhere that American spelling derives from Elizabethan English spelling, so they are right, we just got pompous...

After a few years in the US, I still say "gas", "freeway" and pronounce "router" the American way. "Rooter" just sounds rude. All off-topic, of course.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 22:29:02

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

I read somewhere that American spelling derives from Elizabethan English spelling, so they are right, we just got pompous...

It's true!
At least, I heard the same. lol I heard Elizabethan pronunciation was much closer to west coast/mid-west american than any British pronunciations. English was a rhotic language originally.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 22:51:39

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Escribano)

dunno about where that came from? , sounds like an American told you that one ...
since the Elizabethan period was 1500 and 1600.. and the first concise dictionary of Johnson didnt get published until 1750 something or other ...before that you could spell in your region any old way ...and America wasnt invented until 1492 (Columbus sailed the ocean blue) ... I seriously doubt if the native Americans of the 15, 16 and even 17oo's were learning early English spelling .....still ....
sorry to go far off topic .....

So yeah ...start on 6 and make a half compas .... yeaa.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 23 2014 22:59:01

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Question about compas (in reply to Leñador)

It may have been a Canadian eh.

I am pretty sure that England went non-rhotic within the last couple hundred years though....

I'm not convinced about this 6 thing though, keep talking.