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A Santos video just for fun
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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 RE: A Santos video just for fun (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: estebanana
My experience with Santos' guitars is that they don't sound old and feeble. They are quite vital and modern sounding. There was a Viuda de Santos that was odd sounding that I played, but it was messed with by a later hand.
Some of modern builders say that they started out with trying to build themselves a Santos.
And listening to above example ( which besides has been recorded a bit too conservative on dB / sacrificed some bit depth ) it appears to me as if Lester deVoe has succeeded quite well with matching the ideal. - Only that his make might be a minute heavier than the original ( provided my eye is not mistaking by estimating the above Santos as rather light) and possibly of slightly compressed tone.
quote:
ORIGINAL: deteresa1
Fantastic. It sounds and looks like it holds its own and then some against pretty much any guitar made recently.
Just yesterday - with internet throughput been exceptionally well - I went on YT to listen again to some of your clips ( one of your late blancas impressed me a lot as nasty little flamenca with such a beautiful snap on the trebles), ...
And you might remember my suggestion to include some soft passages into the demo playings. With above Santos demo you can see why.
So, to you luthiers:
Try to provide some pianissimo section in demo recordings, for subtleties of your babes to come through.
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And to be fair:
Stephen,
Yesterday I also listened to the one clip you had posted recently ( when my connection didn´t let me access then) and thought your guitar hoarse and `cigar box´ enough to sense it "thoroughbred", besides.
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Having said that, I think it just came to me what Andy actually meant above.
If it means that today, with so many top quality guitars around, it is remarkable how the old makers´can still compete: Absolutely agreed!
Some may even remain hard to match, despite of todays large number of proficiency and talent in the shops. Check out this sound example:
http://www.mundo-flamenco.com/nc/de/gitarren/gitarren-details.html?tx_kwmundoguitars_pi3[showUid]=132
Ruphus
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 20 2014 11:05:15
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: A Santos video just for fun (in reply to Joan Maher)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Joan Maher
What made you remember it Richard?
John Ray's video, of course. But here's the story, if that's what you are looking for.
In Mexico City there is a large music store in the old original part of the Spanish city, in the ground floor of the Convento de las Vizcaínas, which covers an entire city block near the Salto del Agua, where the aqueduct from Chapultepec terminates. There often used to be interesting instruments in the used department of the music store. One day in the 1960s I walked in, and to my amazement, saw a Santos Hernandez blanca. I asked to play it.
In those days in Mexico City, if you could afford a jacket and tie, you wore them. I did. The woman behind the counter was perhaps in her late 40s or early 50s, dressed in a nice sweater, a pleated wool skirt and sensible shoes. She was an olive skinned blonde, and spoke with a Spanish accent.
I took the guitar and seated myself on one of the row of chairs against the wall, facing the counter. I took out my tuning fork (el tono La) in its tooled leather case, tuned up and played a bit of rosas. Two young boys on the sidewalk peered in through the plate glass window, came in and seated themselves beside me. They gaped in apparent amazement at the torrent of notes cascading from the Santos.
Then I played Escudero's version of his teacher Ramon Montoya's Rondeña. I had never felt anything so exquisitely responsive as the Santos. It was wonderful. I played the piece far better than I ever had before. I was totally immersed in the music.
When I finished, there was silence in the immediate vicinity. A couple of shop customers had paused to listen. The two young boys sat with wide eyes.
I took the guitar back to the counter, and apologized that I couldn't afford it. The Spanish woman had tears in her eyes. She said she was from Ronda, and had heard Montoya play the piece.
I thanked her for letting me play the guitar, and returned to the row of chairs to collect my fancy tuning fork in its tooled leather case. It was gone. The two young boys were gone, too. I dashed out to the sidewalk, but they were nowhere in sight.
I walked a couple of blocks north on the Calle del Niño Perdido to the Cafe El Moro for a cup of hot chocolate to console myself for the loss, and to reminisce on the sound and feel of the Santos under my hands.
RNJ
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Date May 20 2014 16:44:45
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: A Santos video just for fun (in reply to Ruphus)
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quote:
All I know is that in the steel section me dropped dreadnoughts the minute that I discovered parlor size. And it shouldn´t surprise if a similar relation could be found with the nylon fraction. ... I speculate.
The Dreadnoughts are the most overrated guitar, many come to the conclusion you arrived at. But nylon seems to me different. The two kinds of guitars, steel and nylon are difficult to compare and draw the same conclusions about size and how it effects the guitar. Steel strings have their own set of values and ways they change when you enlarge or make smaller the box.
They are opposites in a way, the steel string has to work for the basses to be good and the nylon has to work for the higher strings to be good. The box size effects those two basic themes in different ways on nylons and steels.
About four years ago I changed a dreadnought from a Spanish heel to a bolt on neck. There was a small factory maker in LA that made did a run of Dreads with Brazilian rosewood and Spanish heels in the 70's. They are really nice, but then the neck reset is a problem. The one I was brought had a hack neck reset by slipping the heel. it leaves a nasty bump on the back. They loosen the glue on the heel and slip the neck back and reglue the heel. It kinks the guitar.
I just sawed the neck off, unglued the heel slipped it back to it original position and reglued it. Then planted two threaded inserts into the neck root and reset the neck by bolting to the body with the right amount trimmed off the neck root. Of course all this took days.
The "thoroughbred" flamenco you commented on has a spline joint neck. It's perfection in fit finish and angle. And if the guitar ever needs a neck reset it's a doable procedure not that much different from a dovetail neck reset on a Martin. I like the Spanish heel, but seriously considering using a spline joint instead.
And as long as we are on the topic of Santos, something interesting I learned this year about Santos is that he did not always build the guitar top down in the solera. After a certain point he built them gluing the top on last. Which goes against the regular wisdom on how he worked and what constitutes "Spanish method".
I never knew that by looking at the Santos guitars I have seen, but it was pointed out to me and then it made perfect sense. So what it calls into question what is Spanish style construction? If one of the main architects of the modern flamenco guitar, Santos himself, did it in a way not considered orthodox by todays general knowledge what does that mean for all the makers and buyers who think there are special methods that make the guitar authentically Spanish in construction?
It means spline joints and building the body and neck separately are legitimate and fair game and the guitar can still be in the Spanish style. Santos, and now that I think about it, Domingo Esteso must have been gluing the top on last much of the time.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date May 20 2014 17:52:08
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