Pedro de miguel

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Pedro de miguel

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El forastero

Posts: 18
Joined: Jul. 13 2013

Pedro de miguel

HI! tomorrow I'm going to madrid to buy a new guitar! very exsited! I have lookd up many places to go and fiddle with guitars, but a friend of mine(profesional flamenco guitarist) said I should go to pedro de miguel to get the best guitar for my money. I have at little over 2000 euro. does anybody know about his guitars? cant find much on the web about him.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 8:52:21

Morante

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

A hand made guitar from Pedro de Miguel will cost a lot more than 2000. The student models always used to be Alhambras with a PdM label.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 9:25:14

El forastero

Posts: 18
Joined: Jul. 13 2013

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Morante)

Do you know how much more? can stretch my buget a little...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 9:33:31

Morante

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

I imagine more like 6000. Maybe someone else would have more up to date info: I haven´t been to Madrid for some time.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 10:41:03

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

If you could visit Barcelona (Terrassa), you can test this Pedro de Miguel Student guitar (and many other guitars from different makers to see which one you realy like)

Price is good

http://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/en/flamenco-guitars/used-flamenco-guitars/pedro-de-miguel-mod-estudio-2007-en.html

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 12:11:30

beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

I'd also go to the shop Arash directed You, so You could try and compare more guitar, and find the one easier.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 12:27:45

El forastero

Posts: 18
Joined: Jul. 13 2013

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to beno)

Thank you

im going to Guitarras de Luthier as well to try others. but sins PdM got recommended I will try that as well. I now got 2000-3000 to spend and wander what would you guys get? like to get a dry sounding blanca..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 12:56:34

beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

for that money I'd likely go for this:

http://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/en/flamenco-guitars/new-flamenco-guitars/graciliano-2014-en.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 12:58:32

El forastero

Posts: 18
Joined: Jul. 13 2013

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Arash)

sadly im only going to madrid, and cant get to barcelona on my time schedule..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 12:58:38

El forastero

Posts: 18
Joined: Jul. 13 2013

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to beno)

sounds amazing!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 12:59:51

flamencositar

Posts: 76
Joined: Aug. 8 2012

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

Dude's going to Madrid, not Barcelona. Only 400 miles apart.
There a lot of places in Madrid. But make sure you go to the Conde shops, per this forum. Then your journey will be complete.

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Still the body, quiet the mind, free the soul

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 13:03:21

beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

Don't go by names, go by Your ears and feel.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 13:04:20

El forastero

Posts: 18
Joined: Jul. 13 2013

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to flamencositar)

I heard they are overpriced if you dont have a lot more money then me.. I don't know, will try one for sure. maybe a fp 14? should be in my price range.. thanks anyway!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 15:40:03

El forastero

Posts: 18
Joined: Jul. 13 2013

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to beno)

thats the plan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 15:41:10

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

I have 2 very nice and new 2A blancas. Both cost 2000,-€ with a case. I´m in Huelva, Andalucia.
You can see and hear both guitars in the classifieds section:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=257702&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=257662&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 16:15:24

Morante

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

You are looking at factory guitars at high prices! If you want a real luthier guitar for very little money, listen to Anders or buy from Jero Perez in Algodonales.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 16:29:39

El forastero

Posts: 18
Joined: Jul. 13 2013

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Thanks! I'm going to morrow and if i dont find what i want i will definetly consider your offer! looks and sounds realy good from the vid:-) wich i could come down and play them, but sadly no time for that this time...

@ morante.

good to know, will stay clear of them

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 17:14:33

Thomas

Posts: 225
Joined: Oct. 5 2005

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

recently I recorded a guitar of Anders for the mundo flamenco online shop: great instrument with a wonderful sound at a very reasonable price...
www.mundo-flamenco.com

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TeFau Studio Thomas Vogt
Cuadro Sur Guitar Trio

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 17:32:17

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

quote:

You are looking at factory guitars at high prices! If you want a real luthier guitar for very little money, listen to Anders or buy from Jero Perez in Algodonales.

I agree. If you do want a 'factory' or should I say 'workshop'? guitar then get a Sanchis or Bernal etc.. You are likely to get a much better deal than buying a student level Pedro de Miguel, Ramirez, Conde etc..

Bernal has a shop in Madrid
http://www.guitarraflamenco.com/situacion.html

Vareta, Martin Revuelo (and a Bernal)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2014 17:35:50

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

What do you mean with 'workshop'? guitar.
Bernal and Sanchiz are 100% small factory guitars.
A workshop is something like I and the other luthiers have.

Dont mix things to much. We are already having a hard time.

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2014 6:42:02

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

What do you mean with 'workshop'? guitar.
Bernal and Sanchiz are 100% small factory guitars.
A workshop is something like I and the other luthiers have.

Thank you answering I asked the question because I was trying to distinguish from Yamaha and other large factory guitars, which are different than Bernal and Sanchis.
What would be the best description of the old 60s,70s Ramirez, Conde production, a small factory? Perhaps large workshop with several workers is clearest description for Bernal, sanchis, 60s Ramirez, Conde.

After all I don't think we are having such a hard time it's quite clear the difference between a single Luthier. Though good and bad guitars can be made in both situations.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2014 6:53:59

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

quote:

After all I don't think we are having such a hard time it's quite clear the difference between a single Luthier. Though good and bad guitars can be made in both situations.

I dont think you get the point at all.
This is 2014 and far from those "romantic" times you are talking about. Its darn complicated to make a living working as a small scale luthier. The way things were done many years ago back then in your reference time.
Calling small factory guitars for workshop guitars is pushing the show one more step in the wrong direction. How many guitars do Bernal and Sanchíz make a year. I make around 10 and I could double that if I had someone French polishing them and if I could sell them.
We already have to cope with the fact that an Alhambra 3F is a handmade artesan guitar...
Maybe you know the difference between this and that BRAND of guitar and a luthier made guitar, but the average new member of foroflamenco doesn´t know that. And thats why I step in and say please stop it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2014 9:00:51

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2014 9:22:53

El forastero

Posts: 18
Joined: Jul. 13 2013

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

Well, today im going and I will give all of you an update on how it worked out for me. the brand is not the important thing for me neither is the luthier vs factory, for me now what maters is a better guiter then my vicente sanchis no 25 wich is a pain to play. I will say however that I think it is important to have luthiers working their craft and if I can I will help what i can. but for me today the sound and feel is he most important factor. thanks for the help guys!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2014 9:42:37

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

I would also recommand buying the DVD "El Guitarrero" from which you can see the Ad at the top of the page. It was made by the Admin of this site (Simon) in the workshop of Anders. There you can see how a "real" hand made guitar is built by only one luthier. Anders price for the instruments you see here (the two guitars) is more than fair imo, considering he is really working alone and the quality of the instruments. You will have no problem with "sound and feel" too, if the guitar is built with care by an experienced luthier with a good guitar concept/design. These are not "beginner" guitars or something.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2014 17:16:14

koenie17

Posts: 438
Joined: Feb. 25 2011
From: España

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

Go for Anders offer!! You wont be sorry

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2014 23:44:16

El Rey De los Bagres

Posts: 86
Joined: Apr. 29 2014

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

I agree. If you do want a 'factory' or should I say 'workshop'? guitar then get a Sanchis or Bernal etc.. You are likely to get a much better deal than buying a student level Pedro de Miguel, Ramirez, Conde etc..

Bernal has a shop in Madrid

Cant say i was very impressed by the craftsmanship after watching these two videos but their instruments seems to be well regarded so they must be building decent instruments but they are definitely built after the assembly line principle. You could get a Luthiere made guitar for the same price as the higher end models.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2014 0:44:35

Ricardo

Posts: 14819
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

conde song...dingaling dong.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2014 3:44:53

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

quote:

conde song...dingaling dong.

It is a good song this one. Its great that we sing it so often.

Please remember one thing. This is my job, my sole way of earning the money that pays the bills. Its not something that I bla bla about because I need to get my intellectual view online.
Besides, I´m passionate and proud of what I do, so I defend the trade.

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2014 6:59:21

Morante

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El Rey De los Bagres)

"Cant say i was very impressed by the craftsmanship after watching these two videos but their instruments seems to be well regarded so they must be building decent instruments but they are definitely built after the assembly line principle. You could get a Luthiere made guitar for the same price as the higher end models."

Dont forget that Valeriano maintained a personal taller, where he made his own instruments by hand, a tradition carried on by his son. These guitars are in a different league.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2014 10:12:30