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RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- what goes in between them?
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solea1
Posts: 12
Joined: Apr. 27 2014
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 RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to Ricardo)
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Hi, Ricardo -- thanks for your response, and the constant stream of good advice and experience you share with everyone in this foro.
I don't understand jazz, but I assumed that the giants could go out onto the Brooklyn Bridge at midnight and blow great new horn music that the world had never heard before and in fact would never hear at all. (Was it Coltrane who allegedly did that?)
I got that impression partly from the guitarist who tried to explain Paco's really advanced music in the late eighties. He had learned his first Paco stuff in Russia. He said it was really hard to find a recording, but he finally got one, so he learned it and...
"Wait a minute," I said. "I've had all his recordings for years, and still don't understand the new stuff at all."
He said, "Well, I was a jazz guitarist, and next to jazz, everything else is baby talk."
I loved that whole idea, and figured those jazz guys didn't need any shortcuts or bags of tricks. It's disillusioning but comforting to learn that they are not "unconfoundable" (to mistranslate a Spanish notion.)
Ricardo, you are absolutely right that one can take reasonable exception to every point I make. Sometimes I even do it to myself. I love all the arguments, and consider them part of the pleasure of flamenco.
(In Spain, I'm often called a racist for a bias toward Gypsy artists and styles, and a Taliban for doubting that fresh flamenco is better than the stale stuff I understand.)
_____________________________
Brook Zern
www.flamencoexperience.com
www.flamencoexperience.com/blog
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 10 2014 23:26:46
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Ricardo
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to mark indigo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
quote:
I don't understand jazz, but I assumed that the giants could go out onto the Brooklyn Bridge at midnight and blow great new horn music that the world had never heard before and in fact would never hear at all. (Was it Coltrane who allegedly did that?)
I think that was Sonny Rollins.
I don't know much about jazz, and only started listening to it after getting seriously hooked on flamenco.
People kept on with this "Paco de Lucia... jazz", "modern flamenco... jazz" talk so I thought I'd better check out some jazz.
But it doesn't sound anything like flamenco, modern or otherwise, to me.
I can't see the connection. Except I can sort of see the connection, in the sense that Ramon Montoya supposedly took from classical guitar, but I don't think his music sounded anything like classical guitar.
I don't think "Montiño" or "La Tumbona" or "La Barrosa" or "Gloria al Niño Ricardo" or "La Canada" or "Rio de la Miel" or "El Chorruelo" sound anything like any of the jazz I've ever heard.
So Paco stole some ideas from jazz? If that's so, he flamenco-fied them so well they just sound like flamenco to me 
[and btw I learned some tarantas from Sabicas a while back with a G7flat5 chord shape I managed to find later in a book of jazz chord shapes for guitar, so it seems stealing from jazz is nothing new]
I do know some stuff about jazz. I studied it both before and after getting seriously involved with flamenco. And I concur with your opinion about modern flamenco. I will admit that the generalization about jazz influence centers around "chords" more than anything else, and is perpetuated by flamencos themselves sometimes. (they often are quite proud to think they have discovered some new jazz chord here or there). Yet as we look at specifics there is almost nothing there. For example, Paco "learned" jazz harmony from Mclaughlin...yet when they play TOGETHER, Paco uses traditional flamenco voicings in clear contrast to Mclaughlins way to play the same progressions. Next is the scale generaliztions. Same deal.
I will say Paco used a couple devices I assume he learned....namely the ii-V-i to modulate, and some melodic minor modes but in very sparse instances. I think the aficionados that "don't like jazz-flamenco" are more put off by the use of dynamics of the rhythm guitar....not unlike the typical "stay off the keyboard or bass players toes" style comping which can have a lot of rhythmic holes. So compas evolution more than any new "jazzy" chords or scales.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 12 2014 13:46:43
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