My journey into the blues #2 Mexican

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Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

My journey into the blues #2 Mexican

In honour of Cinco de Mayo and my Mexican wife I thought I would jump in with some spontaneous improv. to a Santana backing track, without any practise.

I've never jammed to Santana before, but I quite like where it might lead. I am trying different styles for my busking repetoire.

This is my poor man's Gibson 335 tribute with P90 and Dirty Fingers pickups in the middle postion (rapidly becoming my favourite position).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2014 15:33:37

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

Very good. The only thing I will say is to sometimes leave all the little inbetween notes in peace. make a hole. That works fantastic in blues. And sometimes play them even softer. Like they are just there. (its difficult, I know)
Maybe a BB King tribute? He´s the king of not playing anything and being extremely bluesy. One of his best solos has 2 notes repeated over the 12 bars and half of the time he doesnt play. but his facial expression is all over the place. .

So what is the best blues band setup...
I would start with a drummer playing with a wet newspaper.
A trombone and a trumpet spitting so much in their instruments that they leave big saliva spots on the floor and so lazy that they are waving in the wind that doesnt blow.

Good work. When will you hit the streets?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2014 15:49:47

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Good advice Anders and I am using BB King as my baseline. I listen to him a lot and his economy of style is quite amazing. I do try to leave some holes, but it's not so easy

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2014 15:57:49

ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

Cool stuff, Simon! I played electric guitar for many years with a strong focus on the blues. Anders gives great advice about leaving some space, and yes it can be very difficult.

2 random things that popped into my head you might be interested in. First is a killer SRV bootleg track from 1981 where he is getting his BB on

Lots of great ideas in here - his playing was especially fiery in the early days:

The other thing I must mention since you said blues and P90s, is the late great Sean Costello. I discovered him just after his passing, and he quickly became one of my favorite blues artists of all time. Killer voice and simple yet GREAT tone and phrasing. Maybe not your thing, but I just have to share his name with every blues fan I encounter. If he interests you, I strongly recommend you start with his album We Can Get Together.

By the way, what are you using for an amp(s)? I've had some beauties over the years - the smell of tubes getting hot is burned into my brain

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2014 16:48:56

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

I do try to leave some holes, but it's not so easy

Its the most difficult thing of all and you see the lack of it in all musical styles.

In flamenco its really bad and its getting worse. Everyone just trying to fill in as much as possible. From the (not geeky) listeners point of view, it gets boring.

I work hard on it as well, in Irish trad. I had clases in Ireland last summer with some really top notch players and they all told me to give space to the music and not just hammer on. In reels and jigs, there are notes all the time but you have to learn to leave space inbetween the notes and play the not so important notes with less presence.

I this last upload, I can hear you are working on it and thats why I told you. You have it, you just need to get it out a little more. These little inbetween runs, play them as if they are not there, and make a picture in you brain of BB kings 2 brass players standing (waving) in the corner of your room.

Looking forward to your BB King tribute.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2014 7:22:36

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

I think your choice of notes is too tentative. Notes have to be played with conviction. The more you practice the more your confidence will grow and that will come through in the music. It wouldn't hurt to develop additional finger strength if you think that will help. Eventually--as with any improvisational style--you'll be able to be tentative in your choice of notes without appearing to be...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2014 10:17:22

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I agree with Anders about the diminishing dynamic range of modern recording. Radio and TV producers want a signal which is as even as possible so music is recorded that way. Then people get used to hearing music that way and don't look for variety.

This is bad for melody but even worse for developing a sense of 'harmonic narrative' as people start to mimic music which is increasingly and willfully shallow.

Anyway...........

I like this guy. He has lots of variety 'soto voce' and can hit a sharp sforzando whilst keeping dynamic variety in the accompaniment. This is from his terrific instructional video (tips on one and two note soloing).

D.

PS I think maybe if you let your pick hand keep moving in time between phrases then it will probably get easier to fall into the groove/dynamics after a break in phrasing. Also you might find that you will want to play more dead notes and rake more often/spontaneously if you are playing off a right hand which is directing the beat.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2014 12:10:28

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

And your new profile pick is putting your newfound bluesman persona into perspective.

Someone tried to rob the club while Lightnin' Hopkins was playing one night and he pulled out a pistol and shot up a window and said "Not in the middle of my set." The photo looks very Chicago, yet has some Houston afternoon before the gig energy.

Another thing effective with Santana style riffs is to play the first few notes really, really, really long and draw them out. An then walk away from them like you are leaving and then turn around and say I was not finished talking yet. And then pick it up. Then after while you say, seriously this is how it is, then you lay into them.

Blues is paced by speech patterns, yeah that sounds weird, but it's the key.

There is this old black guy in Milwaukee named Bill ( I forget his last name) who would host a small bar every Mon. day night. He wore a suit and would go up to the stage and begin to MC the night over the mic to the ten people in the bar and then he would step down a hold court. Kids from the art school would go, old duffers his age would go and businessmen stopping in before going home would go.

Bill made a Monday night with not very much going on into a festive special occasion just by opening a closing the bar with the mic. When he held court he would open a topic for discussion like this:

"You can't get..... a good haaam-bur-ger.............any mo."

With that pace, the stress or accent would go to *get* - *haam* and *any*.

It is music, I think blues very much comes out like that. He would draw out some words a cut other short, like *any mo* was fast and *can't* was drawn out.

I guess what I'm saying is that it seems like blues is speech patterns with guitar scales. And if you can get in Bill's head and talk like that through the guitar it just comes out naturally. I have to find a picture of that guy, got one some where.

Simon I think you should wear that sharp suit when you play and just let all the other guitar players in your head leave the room until you doing the talking. You look sharp in the suit and blues men are down town sharp.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2014 13:17:40

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

Funny to see you first time, Simon, and to see that we are of roughly similar appearance.
At least beart, hair and kinda aura wise in the vid.

The chaps are critisizing you on a high level though.
I think you are doing rather well, especially for one who is just wetting his toes in the genre. If you stick to it, it will certainly turn out really slick.

Rock on!

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2014 13:37:59

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

This was on a July evening. Blues phrasing, space between notes; just get Bill Mayfield into your head:

You can't ........get.......a good hamburger ..........anymo!

Pace the words.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 1:20:43

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

I like this guy. He has lots of variety 'soto voce' and can hit a sharp sforzando whilst keeping dynamic variety in the accompaniment. This is from his terrific instructional video (tips on one and two note soloing).

D.

I like this guy. I certainly wouldn´t mind playing like that on the fiddle.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 6:50:31

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

Thanks for all your useful advice and resources on this. I am playing along to BB King tracks to get a better sense of phrasing and timing. It's helping a lot. I'll keep you posted as I progress.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2014 8:58:20

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

Just curious
Where do you get those tracks. I suppose they are without the solo. In this case a BB King track is a track without BB King?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 6:23:24

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

Just curious
Where do you get those tracks. I suppose they are without the solo. In this case a BB King track is a track without BB King?

In this case, I am playing along to BB King himself on Spotify to understand his phrasing but you can get plenty of backing tracks (without guitar and voice) on YouTube if you search for "BB King backing track" or other artists.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 8:37:21

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

Anders:
More than meets the eye, you have to search through page by page, Irish tunes , fiddle , jazz, blues etc.

http://musicminusone.com/strings/mmo-violin.html

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2014 9:22:13

Anders Eliasson

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Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

Stephen, Its an interesting site, but its 95% classical and I´m not ready for playing Brahms violin concert with full orchestra backing.
I could of course just jam along.

I had a look at youtube and its overwhelming. So thanks.
After summer, I may discover new things on the fiddle.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2014 7:16:24

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

Stephen, Its an interesting site, but its 95% classical and I´m not ready for playing Brahms violin concert with full orchestra backing.
I could of course just jam along.

I had a look at youtube and its overwhelming. So thanks.
After summer, I may discover new things on the fiddle.

You might like to start here then.

http://thesession.org/tunes/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2014 8:25:13

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2014 12:33:39

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

Sorry to have Brahmzed you to death.

I wasn´t trying to turn you down or what its called. I you felt I did so, then I´m sorry, but maybe you should take a look at your shoes. Maybe they are to small?

I found a thing or two on your sites which I have saved in the maybe in the future folder.
Problem with many jazz things is that the stuff for brass is very difficult on strings. I´m not so fond of playing Eb dorian which would be like playing Ab dorian on the cello. I get lost. To complicated. You dont se many jazz groups with brass and strings together..
But there were interesting stuff. But I´m far from being good enough. A lot of it is pretty complicated.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2014 17:05:02

estebanana

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Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

The trick with jazz and strings is to play is in the key that works for you and if you have the chance to play with horns you make the horn players transpose. They can transpose easier. And if they complain **** em. Five flats? Can't do it on your horn, baby. haha

The "Fake books' in C treble clef are the ones you want. The transposing winds and brass have Bflat and Eflat books that put them in concert pitch in more common keys with zero to three sharps or flats for the rest of the band.

You just "read off the head" as jazz players say, meaning you play the melody straight and it's written out for you. I find it good sight reading practice an the melodies are nice. You can improvise modally without too many fast chord changes on many jazz tunes especially the ones from the 60's Miles Davis' band play many of them, and lots of latin jazz from that time can work modally. A lot of the modal stuff can be flamenco-ized and or Irishezed or Celtified.

I used to play also sax so it's all jazz info I knew. Maybe you did too.

Hope that did not Brahmatize you.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 11 2014 0:47:16

Anders Eliasson

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RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

Jazz does brahmatize me quite a lot. I find it to be very cerebral.
Brahms is actually easyer. In order to play his violin concert, I just have to practice 6 hours a day in 20 years. But i dont have to think so much.
But, I´m not going to go there, I was very close once, but I fell of the tree and it took me 20 years just climb up to zero.

When Escribano started his blues threads, his idea was to play something more straight forward, something that has a link to what he´s been playing before. I´m pretty much in the same place. I just want to play and not think to much and i do so a couple of hours a day.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 11 2014 8:02:41

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

When Escribano started his blues threads, his idea was to play something more straight forward, something that has a link to what he´s been playing before. I´m pretty much in the same place. I just want to play and not think to much and i do so a couple of hours a day.

That's pretty much it. I have much less time to do justice to flamenco or a new genre nowadays. It makes for an enjoyable couple of hours a day, rather than beating myself up about it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 11 2014 9:13:54

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: My journey into the blues #2 Mexican (in reply to Escribano)

I totally get the fun aspect of it. I was band before I moved called Skimpy Portions- two ukuleles, one mandolin, cello and string bass. Everyone sang at least a bit. We played 60's -to 90's pop music covers and the band had two rules:

Rule #1 Practice Tues. nights. - The practice host makes dinner or orders a pizza. Band members bring drinks.

Rule #2 No Guitars allowed in the band.

We played at farmers markets and parties. Most fun in music I ever had. My favorite tune we played was Marylin Manson's "Dopeshow"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2014 2:47:24