RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in Mexico according to one source

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RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Estevan)

quote:

Thanks Tom!
Nice to see Paco.
(And he doesn't play an "Andalusian Guitar". )

No - shamelessly advertising the guitars of Manuel Bellido and no doubt getting foro members to post videos of him?!
Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2010 8:54:15

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to RobJe)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobJe

quote:

Thanks Tom!
Nice to see Paco.
(And he doesn't play an "Andalusian Guitar". )

No - shamelessly advertising the guitars of Manuel Bellido and no doubt getting foro members to post videos of him?!
Rob

Whatever guitar he plays on you tube with Carmen is definitely inspiring in spite of who may have made it. If it works, it works. Here's another very flamenco style I like:

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2010 10:00:45

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Estevan)

quote:

Could you ask him what he thinks of "Andalusian Guitars" ?

Probably

Si no sacas dinero de esos no valen pa' nada.

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Visit me on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRaGz6Lf-Uz0HxUv-dGQFLQ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2010 17:28:32

CuerdasDulces

Posts: 277
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Toronto

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to bursche)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bursche

quote:

Could you ask him what he thinks of "Andalusian Guitars" ?

Probably

Si no sacas dinero de esos no valen pa' nada.

Now ask him again
2:25

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2010 18:06:26

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to CuerdasDulces)

"This is amazing"

Yeah, the folks at the Conservatory would be amazed to learn that they are doing joint presentations with the "Contemporary Flamenco Guitar Studio".

Man, that is one ugly-ass guitar.

And it sounds horrible.

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2010 18:33:14

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to RobJe)

This thread needs to be cleansed of it's sins.

Moya playing his Bellido with Tomas----- Lebrija /Utrera groove.

enjoy

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2010 11:23:16

Munin

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to CuerdasDulces)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuerdasDulces

quote:

ORIGINAL: bursche

quote:

Could you ask him what he thinks of "Andalusian Guitars" ?

Probably

Si no sacas dinero de esos no valen pa' nada.

Now ask him again
2:25

You'd never guess what a complete psycho he is just from that video...and up until the part where he changes the guitar, all I was thinking was "such a nice player and teacher"...it's a damn shame. What a waste of talent.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2010 8:28:10

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Estevan)

quote:

Man, that is one ugly-ass guitar

You mean the "Devil Horns" on body and headstock?

I wonder who gets number 666?

woooooooooo....spooky!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2010 8:41:29

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 26 2010 9:00:40

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2010 8:57:03

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

You'd never guess what a complete psycho he is just from that video...and up until the part where he changes the guitar, all I was thinking was "such a nice player and teacher"

Yes I find his videos good, I appreciate his advice on rhythm, compas and rasgeo.

Other issues aside, I think he has something good to offer.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2010 9:02:18

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to RobJe)

edit: beating a dead horse

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 27 2010 3:04:38

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to RobJe)

edit: beating a dead horse

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 27 2010 3:13:01

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Arash)

quote:

and all of them were deleted by Youtube because of spam and violation of rules (many nicks from same person)

I figured Ytube wouldn't put up with this...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 27 2010 6:07:31

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to RobJe)

I may be in a very small minority on this, but I've never considered the Nutty Professor as being that good of a player. He's competently above average, that I'm sure of, but he's nowhere even remotely close to creative genius level. He's too spastic, and too technical for the sake of being technical. His playing and his music annoys me at first, then bores me.

And I held this opinion long before he boldly embarked on his holy Narcissist Crusade.

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Don't look at me in that tone of voice.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 27 2010 6:31:00

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to RobJe)

Dzakovich000 (1 week geleden)
Could you explain the hole in the top of your guitar?
(Not the sound hole)

rdiazflamencojazz (1 week geleden)

The hole you are talking about is called Sound Portal or Doble Boca and it was introduced for the first time in flamenco guitars by Andalusian Guitars.

The purpose is to create different nuances and possibilities while recording or performing regarding tone, sound quality and volume.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 28 2010 0:32:39

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to kozz)

quote:

The hole you are talking about is called Sound Portal or Doble Boca and it was introduced for the first time in flamenco guitars by Andalusian Guitars. The purpose is to create different nuances and possibilities while recording or performing regarding tone, sound quality and volume.

The first flamenco guitar I built that had a sound port was made in Summer of 2007. I remember people laughing at it and telling me I was kooky. I think I predated Andelusional & Co. I also remember the other local guitar makers going out and cutting holes in their guitars after they saw mine. I guess it's a monkey see, monkey do operation.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2010 16:02:36

johnguitars

Posts: 72
Joined: Jul. 27 2007
From: Michigan,USA

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to RobJe)

Estebanna, I like your spelling of that.....A-n-DELISIONAL guitars.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2010 3:22:56

flamencospirit

Posts: 2
Joined: Mar. 8 2008

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to RobJe)

Just came across this thread.

There is no doubt (I was about to say little doubt but that would have been overly generous) that these guitars are Made in Mexico and misrepresented.

Its a sad, sad, sad, story with many (hundreds) unsuspecting beginner flamencos victimized and others (who should now better) bedazzled and blinded by the "connections" to Paco.

The guitars are imported from Mexico unlabelled. Labels later applied. All of the stories about Madrid, the Canary Islands, Paco, Master Builders, etc., are nonsense and have been proven as such.

Hopefully, threads like this can protect the unsuspecting and overly trusting.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 19 2011 14:52:27

El Polaco

Posts: 155
Joined: Sep. 29 2005
From: Singer Island - Florida

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to gj Michelob)

Some new information today about Andalusian Guitars and Ruben Diaz:
By permission of Luthier Marco Antonio Nunez. (from his Facebook page and messages).
Some key pieces of information.

Marco has first hand dealings with RD and says he is a swindler who has a criminal record in Mexico and was apparently selling Conde Hermanos and Francisco Barba guitars made in Morelia, Michoacán (Mexico) about 150km from Paracho. He was apparently putting fake labels in those guitars and passing them as the real makers work. Marco knows the person who copied and made the labels for RD. They cost less than $250 to have built and he was selling them for $2500 and $3000 at the time.
He is saying that Andalusian the guitars are made in Malaga.
Guitarist Paco Navarro from Cordoba is his main outlet promoting and selling the guitars through his school and company.
Many luthiers in Mexico apparently know he is a swindler who is ashamed of his Mexican roots. They are all proud of their heritage and strive to be accepted by discriminating musicians the world over.

The FB comment thread is pasted below (permission of Marco).
Maybe a full translation would be nice for non spanish speaking members...

Marco Antonio Núñez
Hoy me han bloqueado mis estados en un grupo, el nombre del grupo es Guitarra flamenca, ellos me incluyeron sin yo pedirlo, esto de que me bloquearan es gracias a un ladrón que hace poco más de diez años estafo a muchas personas en México, este ladrón de nombre Ruben Díaz, vendió copias, de muy bajo costo de guitarras Hermanos Conde y francisco Barba haciendolas pasar por originales, hoy en día sigue vendiendo guitarras fabricadas en Morelia Michoacán, y dice que las construyen en Málaga España, yo se todo esto por ser una persona estafada e involucrada en este timo por este sujeto. he abandonado ese grupo por darle lugar a un ladrón, no cabe duda de la habilidad de este sujeto no solo de tocar la guitarra, también como estafador es muy hábil.
6Like · · Share

Jonathan El Viejito Ruvalcaba, Juan Antonio Sanchez and 20 others like this.
Antonio Fernandez Rodriguez esto no es la 1 vez k lo escuxo de ese tipo
Yesterday at 7:37pm · Like · 1
Antonio Cerezo Carrasco Gracias por la informacion aumque yo hace tiempo decidi pertenecer a muy poquitos grupos no me gusta lo de la guitaras Conde por aqui se escuchan cosas pero como la gente habla mucho no presto mucha atencion pero es bueno saber lo que dices un saludo Marco Antonio Núñez
Yesterday at 7:41pm · Like · 3
Jorge Beltrán Nadal No te preocupes, todos lo sabemos de las estafas de Rubén Días y sabemos de tu absoluta integridad. A pesar de eso hay gente que lo defiende como Tzinia Salgado, Lupita la esposa del Malagueño, el mismo Mlagueño (vive en playa del Carmen), su mamá: Carmen Días, en Durango Lucero Henández, ponte buso con esa gente porque se aperran con tal de defenderlo.
21 hours ago · Edited · Like · 3
David Marin Martin Pues es una lastima porque entonces ahora esta con el guitarrista y maestro Paco Navarro que es el que distribuye las guitarras Andalusian para el
Yesterday at 8:08pm via mobile · Like · 2
Toño Ayala Blanco Apoco te bloquearon carnalito. Pus que cuyeyos, voy a abandonar la página.
23 hours ago via mobile · Like · 2
Fernando Lazcano Todos nos enteramos de esas tranzas, pero pues ni pex... Saludos...
23 hours ago via mobile · Like · 1
Fernando Su Cárdenas Pero tu no necesitas de ningún grupillo... Tu eres tan talentoso para tocar guitarra como para fabricarlas... Ovaciono tu trabajo cada vez que escucho como suena mi cajón!!!
23 hours ago via mobile · Like · 3
Tere Luna Un abrazo.
22 hours ago via mobile · Like
Marco Antonio Núñez Así es Antonio Fernandez Rodriguez, y me consta yo lo descubrí en México y la gente que me conoce me han dicho que Ruben les juraba sobre la tumba de su padre que yo era el falsificador y en aquellos años yo apenas estaba aprendiendo a hacer guitarras, ademas este tipo tiene antecedentes penales en México y por eso huyó de aquí y ahora está estafando a los canadienses, con guitarras que dice que hacen en Málaga y las hacen en México. saludos Antonio!!!
22 hours ago · Edited · Like · 4
Marco Antonio Núñez Así es Antonio, a mi me incluyeron sus creadores y ahora me han bloqueado, este tipo Ruben Díaz también ha hablado pestes de Vicente Amigo diciendo que su música no vale nada y ahora lo esta utilizando para hacer publicidad a sus guitarras. Y repito lo de las falsificaciones de guitarras Conde y francisco Barba lo urdió Ruben Díaz y muchos cayeron en la estafa, yo se quien escaneo las etiquetas y la historia de primera mano por estar involucrado, en su momento haré publica la historia, por que a más de diez años este hijo de puta me quiere seguir afectando, y se ha vuelto a meter conmigo.
21 hours ago · Edited · Like · 5
Marco Antonio Núñez Sí David lo se, pero en aquel momento que descubrí a esta rata nadie lo creía y de esas guitarras Andalusian te puedo decir que me consta que la hacen aquí en México, en Morelia Michoacán y se pavonea hablando como luthier y no es más que un ladrón que toca la guitarra y aprovecha la posición de conocer a guitarristas para lavarles el coco y validar su fraude a un que esos guitarristas actúan de buena fe, pues no conocen a esta fichita solo saben que toca el repertorio del maestro Paco de Lucia se más cosas de esta rata Weyn, pero se empeña en meterse conmigo, así que a ver de a como nos toca!!!
22 hours ago · Edited · Like · 2
Marco Antonio Núñez Si mi Toño ahora tienen que aprobar mis estados jajajajaja y los de esa rata toxica salen como si nada jajajjaja, seguro fue de putito con los administradores a contar la misma historia de hace más de diez años jajaja pero ya abandone el grupo, total yo no pedí ingresar jajajajajaj me metieron sin preguntar !!!
22 hours ago · Like · 2
Marco Antonio Núñez Sí Fernando, por eso huyó de México el culey . abrazo mi Fer!!!
22 hours ago · Like · 2
Marco Antonio Núñez Hola Fernando Su!!! carnal, me alegra que tu papá se está ya recuperando!!! lo del grupo me da igual al ratero ese, sí que no lo soporto!!! por que de haber habido pedos legales me pudo involucrar, por que tiene mucha labia es como una serpiente, en fin que se vaya a la mierd..... Cuida mucho a tu jefe carnalito y que bueno que ya está en casa, un abrazo bro!!!!
22 hours ago · Like · 3
Marco Antonio Núñez Gracias por tu apoyo Tere, te mando un abrazo!!!!
21 hours ago · Like
Marco Antonio Núñez Jorge gracias por tu apoyo, yo se que mucha gente lo defiende, incluso gente que le compro una guitarra que en aquel entonces le costaron $3,000 pesos y el vendió por originales en 2,000 y 3,000 DOLARES. mis cejillas las revendía en $700 pesos y yo a el se las vendía en $100 en aquellos años, y el pendejo cree que al gente ya se le olvido, hay demandas en su contra y por eso no esta en el país por que como tiene antecedentes penales, pues imagínate si cae otra vez al bote. un abrazo mi Jorge!!!
17 hours ago · Edited · Like · 4
Jorge Beltrán Nadal Y neta él y su progenitora destruyen vidas con la boca. Cuidao.
21 hours ago · Like · 1
Marco Antonio Núñez Lo se! pues mira ahora, seguro comento algo con los administradores del grupo y le han creído a el, pero así es mucha gente le gusta vivir de mentiras y les cuesta lidiar con la verdad.
20 hours ago · Like · 3
Pablo Monge Es verdad tu decir sobre ese Ladron lo peor son tabien los que que acen negocio con las guitarras
15 hours ago · Like · 1
Marco Antonio Núñez Así es Pablo!!! y la verdad que algunos no saben, por que no conocen a este ladrón, pero los que saben son cómplices y son igual de ladrones como el. un abrazo Pablo!!!
8 hours ago · Like · 1
Prince Imazighen la verdad es que las guitarras que usa Ruben tampoco me gustan, no me gusta ni el sonido ni la forma que dicen "andaluza"
7 hours ago · Like · 2
Pipe Berríos Moll parecen ser guitarras clásicas con accion baja, a mi tampoco me convence el sonido de las guitarra de ruben
7 hours ago · Like · 2
Marco Antonio Núñez Lo peor no es su apariencia ni su sonido, el dice que las hacen en Málaga y las hacen en México a el le cuestan unos 600 u 800 euros y las vende por más de 2500 euros. Saludos Pipe y Prince!!!!
6 hours ago · Like · 3
Prince Imazighen la peor cosa que odio en el campo del arte es usarlo para razones comerciales engañando a la gente
6 hours ago · Like · 1
Marco Antonio Núñez Así es amigo Prince, hay personas que no se conforman con el don que Dios les dio y son personas enfermas que encuentran más satisfacción en dañar gente, Saludos Prince!!!

_____________________________

Jorge

Guitarras Artesanas Españolas
www.jorgedezofia.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2013 1:37:07

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Estevan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estevan

"This is amazing"

Yeah, the folks at the Conservatory would be amazed to learn that they are doing joint presentations with the "Contemporary Flamenco Guitar Studio".

Man, that is one ugly-ass guitar. And it sounds horrible.

I have to agree with the guitar not being in its best voice but Ruben is going toward a better place with his playing techniques if he would be careful to maintain it in a more polished fashion. Right now I see it being a little too fractious, which means that Grisha has the edge on him.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2013 3:56:57

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to El Polaco)

quote:

Marco has first hand dealings with RD and says he is a swindler who has a criminal record in Mexico and was apparently selling Conde Hermanos and Francisco Barba guitars made in Morelia,

IMHO you already have to be a criminal to play flamenco on ugly guitar like the "andalucian" guitars

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2013 12:18:09

tri7/5

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to RobJe)

I wonder how the professor will invoke his inner politician and completely avoid responding to this accusation directly as he always does when questioned.

Also if anyone would be so kind to translate the facebook text.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2013 12:22:27

el carbonero

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Florian)

For to find the andaluchine guitars source . Must be sought in asian

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2014 10:44:01

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Arash)

quote:

we should all donate some money, buy one of these Andalusian Guitars, then burn it, film it and upload the video on youtube as a commercial for firewood.

A better idea would be to buy one of these guitars, and then have Grisha or some other of our top players play it on video, with well recorded sound. Then we could all judge for ourselves just how good or bad these guitars are, and the player himself could comment on the sound from a player's perspective, as well as on other things, such as playability, and all aspects of the construction.

A first hand opinion from a top guitarist would be more meaningful than five pages of comments.

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2014 15:12:03

el carbonero

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to RobJe)

ok prominent good idea , but who buy it ? lol

10 000 euros , you think there are a bilionaire in this foro ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2014 15:29:12

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to el carbonero)

quote:

ok prominent good idea , but who buy it ? lol

10 000 euros , you think there are a bilionaire in this foro ?

Ten thousand euros? Is that what they are? Oh. Well, anyone who pays ten thousand euros for that, there's a bridge right here in Brooklyn I will be happy to sell him.

It's all moot anyway, nobody's about to chip in to buy one of those. But as somewhat of an alternative, we have thousands of members all over the place. Maybe if a member comes across one in person, he can play it and give us his opinion.

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2014 17:59:57

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

Maybe if a member comes across one in person, he can play it and give us his opinion.

I could tell you about the trebles

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2014 18:04:11

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

quote:

Maybe if a member comes across one in person, he can play it and give us his opinion.

I could tell you about the trebles

_____________________________

"Trebbles sound great, isn't it?"

Well, what about the trebles. And if you've played one why can't you tell us about the basses as well. Or is this some kind of private joke?

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2014 18:15:22

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

Well, what about the trebles. And if you've played one why can't you tell us about the basses as well. Or is this some kind of private joke?

It's more of an inside joke.

Check the sig.

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2014 19:16:08

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

It's more of an inside joke.

Check the sig.

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"Trebbles sound great, isn't it?"

Oh, now I understand, doesn't I.

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2014 19:41:39

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