RE: I hate new strings!

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Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gummy

I hate when I have to change my strings. First of all it takes too long, then the guitar is out of tune for awhile, then the sound is metallic and tinney.(sp? like tin..) The strings are also too squeaky. I am often surprised to read some of your posts about how you like new strings...

The solution: buy another guitar, and if you have machines, get one of those crank thingies. When it's time to change, put on new strings, tune them up about a half step sharp, put the guitar away, and get out the other one.

After a couple of days, get out the one with new strings, tune it up about a half step sharp again. Wait two more days, then get out the guitar with new strings. It's ready to play. You will have to keep tuning fairly often, then less and less. When the basses stop going flat overnight, it's time for new ones again.

I had some work done on one of my guitars in the last few months. At the shop I was re-stringing it while the repairman was busy with another task, more urgent than mine. He said, "Why aren't you using the crank? It saves a lot of time."

I said, "I've been playing the guitar for more than 50 years, but I have never used one of those cranks to change strings."

He gave me one.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2014 16:30:42

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

If you hate new strings, I'll be happy to sell you my old ones.

Ramon

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2014 14:04:28

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prominent Critic

If you hate new strings, I'll be happy to sell you my old ones.

Ramon

Me too, plenty where those came from!

Seriously, if you guys simply tie the string around the roller, and tune sharp as Richard said, and keep at it by playing it...finally when you need to perform (in a little as a few hours), tune the strings back down to pitch and it's good to go with only slight adjustments. In my experience anyway. I don't normally change entire sets as often, but when I do change only basses, I can have em ready to use live in minutes If I need to. Changing only the 3 trebles will also take a couple hours to settle.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2014 15:43:31

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

I hate changing strings. I've been doing this for over 20 years, but I'm still slow at it. It takes me a month or so to really deteriorate my strings so they won't hold their intonation too well, and that's when I sigh and realize I am going to have to do it. There are definitely some good points. It only takes me a few days to wear a little notch in my treble strings where I usually play that make it sound kind of scratchy. I hate that sound! Of course the basses have a lot more snap when you change them. New strings feel too tight to me and do sound plasticky. It feels like I have to work harder to move them.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2014 16:36:18

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

quote:

the sound is metallic and tinney.(sp? like tin..)

Tinny.

You can (I believe) buy squeakless strings, although they cost considerably more. I’ve never tried them. I remember Savarez used to make them for Alexandre Lagoya.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2014 17:06:59

Stu

Posts: 2522
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

I really like new strings. after I've been playing on a beat up set longer than I should have and I finally change them its like I've got a new guitar. the metallic sound is fine to me.. doesn't last too long really. changing them can be a bit of a pain in the arse yeah. I bought one of those cranks and lost it in my house before I got one use from it. moved house now and its never been found. I havent got another one

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2014 21:09:15

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

I change strings about once every week, sometimes even more often. I don't like scratched up trebles as they produce sharp sound no matter what you intended. Takes me about 30 minutes to change, and one day to settle.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2014 1:47:27

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Grisha)

I have a conspiracy theory (I'm Iranian, so I have one for everything):
String manufacturers could produce bass strings which would sound bright much longer if they just wanted to, but they don't, so that we have to buy strings every week. Imagine a set of bass strings sounding fresh and bright for one year.
Manufacturers would go bankrupt

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2014 4:46:09

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Grisha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grisha
I don't like scratched up trebles as they produce sharp sound no matter what you intended.

Why is it that after watching you just blazing away night before last, I think your trebles are more likely to get scratched up than mine?

I really enjoyed the concert. You guys rock!

Here's a little piece about Manolo de Huelva, which says that like you guys he played both classical and flamenco in concerts.

http://ateneodecordoba.com/index.php/Manolo_de_Huelva

As you probably know more about than I do, he was also in demand as accompanist for the greatest singers of the era, including Manuel Torre (!).

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2014 22:19:53

mellowmel

Posts: 85
Joined: Aug. 31 2006

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Grisha)

Dang, you must really play a great deal! I think I might have done this with strings that had been shelved or stocked too long or Savarez since they only lasts about a week but since I've discovered Strings by Mail, (known for good stock rotation) I only order once a month and I'm a happy camper. I'm talking about EJ46 here now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 4:29:13

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grisha
I don't like scratched up trebles as they produce sharp sound no matter what you intended.

Why is it that after watching you just blazing away night before last, I think your trebles are more likely to get scratched up than mine?

I really enjoyed the concert. You guys rock!

Here's a little piece about Manolo de Huelva, which says that like you guys he played both classical and flamenco in concerts.

http://ateneodecordoba.com/index.php/Manolo_de_Huelva

As you probably know more about than I do, he was also in demand as accompanist for the greatest singers of the era, including Manuel Torre (!).

RNJ

quote:

concertista que alterna música académica con la flamenca.

Hmm, not sure WHAT "musica de academica" he would have played....I can't imagine him playing Bach or something with the technique he had. It was pretty edgy. I really like his playing for Vallejo. Maybe one of the earliest players I hear emphasizing the stacato picado attack. Segovia named him as the best (or his favorite) flamenco player....probably cuz he did play classical guitar. But to be honest, there is no comparison to R. Montoya IMO.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 11:55:55

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

Richard,

Your procedure sounds a bit long-winded to me until strings set in.
I suspect that you do not keep them under tension from beginning when winding up.
When not doing so, and possibly also allowing to many windings / excess on the roller, the setting in will be prolonged as the string keeps taking length from the roller. ( If that´s correct English.)

Another point I find of practical sense is how to reduce the losening of metall windings on the bass strings while the nylon core expands over time. When threadening in, before starting to wind up, twist the bass string along the windings direction. ( Enhance the windings density.)
Hence, wind it up "pre-loaded" if you will.

Methods certainly matter.
You see roadies stringing up with the guitars keeping tune rather fast / yet not going out of intonation after any potential over stretch.

And I can say with certainty that my guitars stay in tune considerably faster than in my first years of fiddling around.

... Oh, and one other point regarding windings on the roller:
Line them up towards laterally. The enhanced angle in respect of the nut groove should be good for another bit of stability through increased friction.

Yours firmly,

Dottore RollYoOwn

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 13:11:20

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

Here's a little piece about Manolo de Huelva, which says that like you guys he played both classical and flamenco in concerts.

http://ateneodecordoba.com/index.php/Manolo_de_Huelva

As you probably know more about than I do, he was also in demand as accompanist for the greatest singers of the era, including Manuel Torre (!).

RNJ

quote:

concertista que alterna música académica con la flamenca.

Hmm, not sure WHAT "musica de academica" he would have played....I can't imagine him playing Bach or something with the technique he had. It was pretty edgy. I really like his playing for Vallejo. Maybe one of the earliest players I hear emphasizing the stacato picado attack. Segovia named him as the best (or his favorite) flamenco player....probably cuz he did play classical guitar. But to be honest, there is no comparison to R. Montoya IMO.

Ricardo

In fact, i read somewhere that he did play Bach in concert--perhaps in an even more personalized form than Segovia, but ¿Quien sabe?.

Here's another article that says a little more about him

http://www.elartedevivirelflamenco.com/guitarristas1.html

Sometime in the early 1960s (late 1950s?) I was at a party at a big house in Sevilla when the host came out with some acetate discs of Manolo. He said Manolo had a rich woman for a student, and cut the discs for her. I also note in the linked piece that he made some recordings for Marius Zayas, that were published by the Bienal de Sevilla. Guess I'll hunt around for a copy.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 16:45:51

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

Richard,

Your procedure sounds a bit long-winded to me until strings set in.
I suspect that you do not keep them under tension from beginning when winding up.
When not doing so, and possibly also allowing to many windings / excess on the roller, the setting in will be prolonged as the string keeps taking length from the roller. ( If that´s correct English.)

Yours firmly,

Dottore RollYoOwn

Not really.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 17:17:14

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

In fact, i read somewhere that he did play Bach in concert--perhaps in an even more personalized form than Segovia, but ¿Quien sabe?.

Yes I heard about it too from Brune. Its just hard to wrap my imagination around when I am used to THIS:

http://youtu.be/vVUEnwBdYyo

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www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 1 2014 23:39:31

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Ruphus)

To answer a little more fully: I could get going with new strings in an hour or two like Ricardo if I really needed to. I'm just lazy, and I like to play the other guitar once in a while.

Tuning a half step sharp and putting the guitar away for a day or two, then doing it again is nearly no work at all. After that the strings stay in tune pretty well for ten or fifteen minutes at a stretch, getting better and better as time goes on.

And I keep them tight from the start, minimize the turns on the roller, etc. etc. etc.

I used to tune them up, then stretch them, but now that I have two good flamencas, I don't need to fuss around that much.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 4:04:17

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

In fact, i read somewhere that he did play Bach in concert--perhaps in an even more personalized form than Segovia, but ¿Quien sabe?.

Yes I heard about it too from Brune. Its just hard to wrap my imagination around when I am used to THIS:

http://youtu.be/vVUEnwBdYyo

I listened to that the other day. There are similarities to a Niño Ricardo rosas without ever being exactly the same. They say that much of Manolo de Huelva's stuff derives from Javier Molina, and maybe some of it via Molina to Paco de Lucena.

I'm sure Ricardo knows this, but for those who may not, the tocaor Javier Molina grew up with the great singer Antonio Chacon in the Barrio Santiago of Jerez, and frequently accompanied him after Chacon became famous. Molina also played both classical and flamenco, though I don't know to what extent he played classical in public.

It's unclear whether Niño Ricardo was at any time actually Molina's student, but Ricardo was heavily influenced by him.

Molina lived to a grand old age, and continued teaching long after he mostly stopped playing in public. His influence was great. For example he was the teacher of Manolo Sanlucar's father Isidro Muñoz, Paco Cepero is one of Molina's younger students.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 4:56:32

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

To answer a little more fully: I could get going with new strings in an hour or two like Ricardo if I really needed to. I'm just lazy, and I like to play the other guitar once in a while.

Tuning a half step sharp and putting the guitar away for a day or two, then doing it again is nearly no work at all. After that the strings stay in tune pretty well for ten or fifteen minutes at a stretch, getting better and better as time goes on.

And I keep them tight from the start, minimize the turns on the roller, etc. etc. etc.

I used to tune them up, then stretch them, but now that I have two good flamencas, I don't need to fuss around that much.

RNJ

I see.
Makes sense.

Ruphus

PS: Forgot to mention: I love new strings! Certainly new basses.
... But I´m lazy in the same time.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 11:55:05

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

Molina lived to a grand old age, and continued teaching long after he mostly stopped playing in public. His influence was great. For example he was the teacher of Manolo Sanlucar's father Isidro Muñoz, Paco Cepero is one of Molina's younger students.

And don't forget Morao and Parrilla. The entire jerez "school" is attributed to him. Rafael Aguila was Molina's student, and taught many other players including Nuñez. He is interviewed in Rito y Geografia and admits also to be able to read music, but didn't teach that. Paco Lucena....Segovia's dad?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 14:15:06

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

And don't forget Morao and Parrilla. The entire jerez "school" is attributed to him. Rafael Aguila was Molina's student, and taught many other players including Nuñez. He is interviewed in Rito y Geografia and admits also to be able to read music, but didn't teach that. Paco Lucena....Segovia's dad?

The whole Jerez school, indeed.

I cited Manolo Sanlucar's father because the story is told that he bicycled from Sanlucar to Jerez for his lessons with Molina. Seven or eight miles, a fair amount uphill, with a guitar on his back!

Cepero was only 14 when Molina died at the age of 87 0r 88.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 17:30:05

aloysius

Posts: 233
Joined: Apr. 7 2005
From: Adelaide, Australia

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Ricardo)

I hadn't heard that alegria before - just about all the alegria i've heard from that era of player is almost all triplets, he seems to prefer the semiquaver/quaver phrasing that became popular much later

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2014 10:58:04

mellowmel

Posts: 85
Joined: Aug. 31 2006

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

ORIGINAL: at_leo_87

quote:

You only need to change the trebles about 1-2x a year (!), the basses every couple of weeks.

is this really true? doesn't the intonation go bad?

for basses, i reverse them after the second week, or at least adjust them and slide the whole thing down a few frets. you'll get the brand new strings sound for a day or two!

This is not true. The intonation goes bad and then some. Trebles become over stiff. Response, presence, percussiveness, harmonics etc. are also gone after 3 weeks or so. People that believe this "once a year trebles change" thing are either just too cheap, don't give a rats ass, or just a weirdie. Jejeje.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 20 2014 4:07:19

MarcChrys

Posts: 121
Joined: Jan. 11 2009
From: England (West Yorkshire/Lancashire)

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

I like new strings after a week- they stay in tune, basses still have that nice bright raspy sound and trebles have settled in. I really HATE changing strings though - I'd gladly pay some Boy Scout to change them for me! Think I need to get one of those winder thingymajigs.

I have a set of strings on my old Eko steelstring acoustic that haven't been changed in 30 years! They are as comfy as old slippers ;-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 20 2014 18:41:34

etta

Posts: 341
Joined: Jan. 20 2010

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Gummy)

On trebles I agree; trebles usually can be changed 2-3 times per year. I use Savarez Corum HT basses, and they generally last at least a month and sometimes three months with good sound. i do wrap a cloth around each string and wipe thoroughly after playing; that could be a good key for making the bass strings last longer. Even on my little Yamaha flamenco the bass strings sound good for long intervals. I buy extra bass sets of the Corums from Strings by Mail; saves money.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 20 2014 19:58:54

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

Also good for string life: Wash your hands prior to playing.
Keeps the nasty from building up so fast on your fretboard too.........

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 20 2014 20:22:42

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to mellowmel)

quote:

People that believe this "once a year trebles change" thing are either just too cheap, don't give a rats ass, or just a weirdie. Jejeje.

I agree. The trebles die quickly. Not as quickly as the basses, but they're
right behind them. Once they dont go flat anymore, they're done.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 21 2014 5:59:17

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

My last two sets of Savarez Tomatito strings lasted 5 days each before I completely destroyed them. I play pretty hard I guess.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 21 2014 6:25:06

El Burro Flamencuro

Posts: 118
Joined: Nov. 28 2012

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Grisha)

quote:

My last two sets of Savarez Tomatito strings lasted 5 days each before I completely destroyed them. I play pretty hard I guess.

The secrets out, we know what strings Grisha uses now; quick buy them before they go out of stock.

Grisha is like a heavenly entity, you can't really talk to him directly but who knows, one day he just might start talking in your head and guide you....luke...put the visor down...luke.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 21 2014 7:57:58

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Grisha)

quote:

My last two sets of Savarez Tomatito strings lasted 5 days each before I completely destroyed them. I play pretty hard I guess.

I can tell from your videos you are a really hard/loud player.

Its not surprising that you can trash a set of strings inside of a week. :)

How are your hands doing btw?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 21 2014 12:16:45

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I hate new strings! (in reply to Grisha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grisha

My last two sets of Savarez Tomatito strings lasted 5 days each before I completely destroyed them. I play pretty hard I guess.

For me and bandmates they broke... and I mean a lot of them broke and like in one gig.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 21 2014 13:53:14

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