Flamenco techniques but not flamenco!

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Music88

Posts: 7
Joined: Apr. 9 2014

Flamenco techniques but not flamenco!

Hello everyone!

Just joined the forum and I'm so excited.
I'm planning to start the journey of learning the amazing art of flamenco guitar soon.
But before I do so, I wanna ask a question. It has nothing to do with reason why I'm here, but it's been a dilemma I just couldn't solve for a long time. I have a strong feeling I'll find the solution here..hope you wouldn't mind guys helping me out!

FWIW, I heard that studying and learning the techniques used in classical guitar playing would give the foundation needed, technique-wise talking, to play anything you want on a nylon string guitar. Especially if someone is interested in learning solo or chord-melody type of playing to play jazz, latin, bossa nova..or even for doing fingerstyle arrangements of pop or rock.. tunes.

I'm not against this advice nor I dislike classical guitar music, and it actually makes sense to me to some extent. But having heard and seen many flamenco players, I've always thought that their right hands are more developed and more... athletic

when compared to classical guitarists' but yet to hear an advice regarding learning flamenco guitar techniques to start fingerpicking on your guitar.. or to expand your technical abilities for making a better arrangement of a chord-melody solo of some sort of music on a nylon string guitar!

It might be thought that the techniques used in flamenco guitar only serve the player to play flamenco music. Not sure though.

I do understand the difference in the tone produced by classical and flamenco players. And I'm definitely not saying that the reason why anyone should study flamenco guitar is to learn the techniques! I'm just wondering why many people tend to think that one has to learn classical guitar techniques if (s)he wants to play the right way on a nylon string guitar!

My question is for you experts here, especially those with experience in both flamenco and classical guitar.. Which help more to make the best use of the nylon strings and therefore set a better foundation for playing different music genres on a nylon string guitar.. flamenco guitar techniques or classical guitar techniques?

All the respect to both styles, of course.

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 21:29:45

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Flamenco techniques but not flam... (in reply to Music88)

Flamenco has every technique classical has, and then more. It would be a MUCH easier transition for a flamenco to play classical then a classical musician to play flamenco. For a flamenco you slightly modify techniques you already know, for a classical guy you gotta modify techniques, learn new techniques AND get better at rhythm. Lol. Plus if you played nylon anything else (jazz, South American etc) flamenco is a way better base.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 23:48:55

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Flamenco techniques but not flam... (in reply to Music88)

Welcome to the foro. It's hard to answer your question from a technical point of view. Every style of music has it's own characteristics and the only way to master a new style of playing is to invest some serious time in the technical and musical aspects involved. I guess how easy it is to adapt depends more on the person involved then the style he or she studied. As a mater of fact, someone who never touched a guitar before might do a better job picking up for instance the blues as a well trained classical or flamenco player if he beats the other 2 in picking up/reproducing the correct feeling.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2014 0:19:32

timoteo

Posts: 219
Joined: Jun. 22 2012
From: Seattle, USA

RE: Flamenco techniques but not flam... (in reply to Music88)

Hi Music88, welcome to the foro. You'll find there's a tremendous amount of knowledge here, both in the archives and in the foro members themselves.

IMO the best way to answer your question is to direct you to the "Search" function in the upper right of this page. Type in "classical" and start reading. I'm sure you will quickly become familiar with the many opinions that this sort of question usually elicits. The signal-to-noise ratio in these types of threads is rather low, which is why you can glean a lot more information on this topic by reading rather than asking.

Or, to see where this will eventually end up, simply go to the latest in this sort of "discussion", found at http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=255984 ("Paco's masterpiece").

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2014 0:41:13

Ricardo

Posts: 14818
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco techniques but not flam... (in reply to Music88)

quote:

I'm just wondering why many people tend to think that one has to learn classical guitar techniques if (s)he wants to play the right way on a nylon string guitar!

Because, many people are ignorant.

Unfortunately, learning the proper techniques of flamenco in order to better prepare to play OTHER types of music, doesn't work. The music of flamenco gave birth to the techniques needed to express...not vice versa. Too many guitarists are attracted to the technique alone, as if it is some "tricks" or whatever, and don't learn correctly. But learning through the music is the right way. And it goes for other musics too (as others have stressed in this thread already). Different musics have different disciplines, it's simple as that. Decide on the music you WANT to study and follow the disciplinary practices in order to succeed. If not, you end up jack of all, master of nada.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2014 3:22:52

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Flamenco techniques but not flam... (in reply to Music88)

The main point being, flamenco IS better then classical.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2014 4:12:51

Music88

Posts: 7
Joined: Apr. 9 2014

RE: Flamenco techniques but not flam... (in reply to Ricardo)

Thank you guys for the welcome! No surprise to read such friendly and informative replies, it has to be said.

Erik and Ricardo made a very good point. Each music style has its own flavor, its own authentic sound...along with its techniques which, the techniques, should be no more than tools to express the music.. right on Ricardo when you said the music gave birth to the techniques.

I love flamenco music and, admittedly, I'm impressed by the techniques.. but I surly won't study flamenco guitar for the techniques.. that would be silly!

To rephrase the point I was trying to make...I think the nylon string guitar has been used in different types of music..flamenco, bossa and brazilian music, cuban music, classical, some jazz...etc. That said, and despite the different colors and expressions, and from a technical point of view

, I can only see, IMHO, two main big styles or two big different approaches to playing the nylon string guitar..the flamenco way and the classical way...

Now, though I tend to think, and some people here would agree too, that holding the guitar, strumming and fingerpicking the nylon strings the way the flamenco player use is a better and more versatile way to express yourself on this instrument, whether you're playing flamenco or non-flamenco music... I still hear many people recommend learning classical guitar techniques, even if one is not interested in playing classical music, that is to learn the sure and time-tested way to play the nylon string guitar! Sounds familiar? Why not recommending learning flamenco guitar techniques in such example or situation.. Could be ignorance maybe as Ricardo already said..

Regardless, I'm happy to be here.

Cheers!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2014 12:35:45

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Flamenco techniques but not flam... (in reply to Music88)

Studying classical guitar will teach you how to pluck the strings in a variety of ways. Studying flamenco will teach you how to strum the strings in a variety of ways. Note that both styles share a lot of common techniques, as they borrowed from each other quite a bit.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2014 13:15:32

Music88

Posts: 7
Joined: Apr. 9 2014

RE: Flamenco techniques but not flam... (in reply to Grisha)

Wow..what a pleasure to see a reply from you sir, I'm a big fan!

You play both styles amazingly well. Watching you play makes me think there's advantages to learning both styles..

For the record, I was speaking about one specific case or scenario I just come across quite often, but when it comes to me.. I prefer learning flamenco guitar techniques cos I love and wanna play flamenco music.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2014 14:15:58

mellowmel

Posts: 85
Joined: Aug. 31 2006

RE: Flamenco techniques but not flam... (in reply to Music88)

All I know is, almost any guitarist can learn a classical piece or two or have it in their repertoire already. This NOT the case with flamenco. Rasgeados, Picados, Alzpuas, 5 Note Tremolos, etc. are very hard and takes time to sound legit unlike plucking strings and I don't care what they say otherwise. You say you love flamenco so you are already half way there in my book. All you need now is Consistency & Patience. Like Segovia said, "a man without patience is like a lamp without oil". Flamenco techniques will get stronger as you learn your fave pieces. Whether you prefer traditional or modern, don't test the water too long or too much - just jump into it. A lifetime may not be enough to get where you want to be with The Holy Grail style of guitar music IMHO.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2014 5:25:26