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RE: Stradivarius? You'd be better off with a modern violin
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estebanana
Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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 RE: Stradivarius? You'd be better of... (in reply to gj Michelob)
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quote:
.. and neither of you is Italian, so be quiet on Italian matters -as on the subject of Spaghetti or its violin making school
Hmm, that pasta looks good.
GJ, I know this is going sound preposterous coming from a Californian; I was disturbed by the cavalier and fast in the barrel comments that Strads and other Italian masters violins are just instruments which the owner uses to distinguish themselves with rarity appeal.
Yes sure there are some which would do that, but the violin itself can't set its own price, the market will. And as it was pointed out an instruments is worth what someone will pay for it. Ok right again, and sure the market will tell what prices a makers work will carry. With Stradivari, and certainly Guarneri del Gesu, and the Amati family, the works are rare and have the appeal that a fine expensive painting has, or fine automobile, fine watch or any other great branded consumer good that will grant the buyer a station as a discriminating patron of all things beautiful and worthy of intellectual cultivation.
The Strads fits perfectly in that crate with the dozen bottles of rare wine that might have a heavenly funk in the terroir, that only a highly studied wine drinker could appreciate. One major difference between a Stardivari violin and almost the other consumer markers that have been mentioned is that the Strad, for its line of goods is the archetype. It is the standard that has been the rule by which all instruments get measured. In France there exists a meter stick which is the standard of the metric unit; the stick is derived from the venture of two engineers who struck out from opposite sides of the country armed with survey scopes. They each aim at one another and surveyed a dead line between the until they met in the middle. they used the metric divisions of this line to set the length of the one important meter stick which keeps steady the standard mensur of one meter.
Could that meter stick set a price on itself? Of course not. Will the meter stick be valued a for more that its actual monetary worth because it holds a standard of scientific and intellectual rarity? Perhaps, one would hope so. I submit that a Stradvari violin is a not unlike that meter stick and holds a greater value than a modern instrument, not only because if its rarity factor or to be crude, for its snob appeal- they way it imbues the buyer with instant an undeniable branding power exceeded by no other fiddle in the music world- but for it intrinsic value as the archetype and centuries old measure of what is high sonic art.
Maybe I've gone too far once again, it's been said my verbosity is only hollow, and if that is the case I do apologize. Only I ask to you consider my mini exegesis on this most religious of subjects, the Stradivari price gauge, as an exposition penned ( ok typed) forth for your amusement. Consider the time spent writing this as a Dantean penance which will serve to expunge me in both name and thought from the horrors of inflicting my attitudes on others. But most importantly that you will forgive my egregious and willful trespass on the good names of the first families of Italian violin making. For this Im deeply sorry and seek your Italiante forgiveness with heart felt motive.
And lest you think this is nothing but a Machiavelli transaction good sir, let me tell the readers of this tale, both the gentle readers and the not so gentle, that as silly and manufactured for comedy as this is, there is one thing that it perfectly clear. This man Giacomo gave me a cello a few years ago, and this gift relaunched my interested and passion for the instrument which had been pushed down deep inside me by past difficulties with life.
One day while visiting Giacomo I mentioned in passing that I had played the cello, he asked me if I would look at a cello he had in the other room. He produced the violoncello from a white fiberglass case adorned with travel stickers from Russia, Germany, Canada, Great Britain and several other musical destinations. We popped the cello out of the case and I tuned it, he was surprised I could tune it, actually so was I. Putting bow to stings was not a sound that prompted either of us to exclaim to God almighty that this was a treasure from beyond the clouds, mainly because the bow lacked rosin and slipped like a greasy ice cube over the stings.
After a lengthy session of Giacomo insisting I take the cello home to play as his gift, and me volleying the cello back with "I can't possibly take it, you are to generous..." I finally after imbibing two more glasses of the fine wine he served me consented to take ownership of my new Strad in proxy.
This guy just gave me a cello. It must be an Italian thing to just give another person a cello. Maybe in elementary school in Italy there is a custom of teaching children generosity and to always have three of four celli on hand to send your guests home with after you treat them to a fine meal. I think not. The generosity part yes, the cello part no. Giacomo had a cello and for his own reasons he gave it to me. I began to take lessons again after a break of many many years and it awakened a whole world of knowledge but mostly passion for the cello. Awaking old passions can be fraught with difficulty, it brigs to light why passions get raised and you may have left behind a thing or activity you love. The pain can be great, but in many cases in, in this case, I was able to get past much of it and have been better for it.
Another thank you to Giacomo for giving me that cello, it brought down a rain on me that I had to get through. It upset me as much as it pleased me, it opened up deep wound I thought would stay buried. I worked with some of them and some of them remain, but I think I'm on the better side of healing from those old sufferings and in a way must thank Giacomo not only for the cello, but for the real gift, which was how it made me double back and not give up on my deep love for the instrument. Whether that be working on them or playing them.
I now return you to your regular debate of all things debatable.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Apr. 13 2014 0:10:49
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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RE: Stradivarius? You'd be better of... (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
Hmm, that pasta looks good.
...
One day while visiting Giacomo I mentioned in passing that I had played the cello, he asked me if I would look at a cello he had in the other room. He produced the violoncello from a white fiberglass case adorned with travel stickers from Russia, Germany, Canada, Great Britain and several other musical destinations. We popped the cello out of the case and I tuned it, he was surprised I could tune it, actually so was I. Putting bow to stings was not a sound that prompted either of us to exclaim to God almighty that this was a treasure from beyond the clouds, mainly because the bow lacked rosin and slipped like a greasy ice cube over the stings.
After a lengthy session of Giacomo insisting I take the cello home to play as his gift, and me volleying the cello back with "I can't possibly take it, you are to generous..." I finally after imbibing two more glasses of the fine wine he served me consented to take ownership of my new Strad in proxy.
This guy just gave me a cello. It must be an Italian thing to just give another person a cello. Maybe in elementary school in Italy there is a custom of teaching children generosity and to always have three of four celli on hand to send your guests home with after you treat them to a fine meal. I think not. The generosity part yes, the cello part no. Giacomo had a cello and for his own reasons he gave it to me. I began to take lessons again after a break of many many years and it awakened a whole world of knowledge but mostly passion for the cello. Awaking old passions can be fraught with difficulty, it brigs to light why passions get raised and you may have left behind a thing or activity you love. The pain can be great, but in many cases in, in this case, I was able to get past much of it and have been better for it.
Another thank you to Giacomo for giving me that cello, it brought down a rain on me that I had to get through. It upset me as much as it pleased me, it opened up deep wound I thought would stay buried. I worked with some of them and some of them remain, but I think I'm on the better side of healing from those old sufferings and in a way must thank Giacomo not only for the cello, but for the real gift, which was how it made me double back and not give up on my deep love for the instrument. Whether that be working on them or playing them.
I now return you to your regular debate of all things debatable.
Thank you for this post, Stephen. Let me simply add that your irresistible excitement at the sight of that Violoncello made it impossible for me to act otherwise. I realized it meant the world to you, at the time, while it was a meaningless storage item for me. Of course, I could have sold it, but sometimes making someone happy is the more valuable transaction.
_____________________________
gj Michelob
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Date Apr. 13 2014 17:58:18
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Stradivarius? You'd be better of... (in reply to estebanana)
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Stephen, that is a most eloquent homage you have paid to your friend Giacomo. Eloquent and from the heart.
Giacomo, it is an homage well-deserved. As much as I have enjoyed reading your posts, it is doubly satisfying knowing you are a man of such character and substance, which is something to be treasured in this world filled with shallow poseurs and charlatans who equate the decibel level of their argument with its validity.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Apr. 13 2014 19:40:13
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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RE: Stradivarius? You'd be better of... (in reply to estebanana)
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Ruphus, the Cello is not a Strad nor an Amati... but apparently a good student's instrument.
However, the luthier who sold it to me in NYC and I became really good friends. So, as a Gift, he decided (first run of good will) to completely re-do it and restore it for me. He changed so many parts, that the cello is not what it was when I bought it. Not unlike what happened to most Strads out there... 
The bow, on the other hand, is top notch, a really expensive piece. Along with the case, both belonged to a rather famous cellist -my then teacher (hence the various stickers from the world's concert halls she pleased with her talent). Both were gifts... So this Cello, and the brilliant repairs, and its Bow and its case all are imbued with the spirit of generosity.
I am sure Stephen will donate it to a conservatory where there are plenty of talented students who "need" a decent first Cello.
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gj Michelob
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Date Apr. 14 2014 14:51:14
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Stradivarius? You'd be better of... (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nealf
The pulsation was very stiff, the sound was not that great,
About 8 years ago, I had discovered a dusty gem in one of Berlin´s best reputated shops.
Don´t recall why, but I had them send it to me then per taxi. The driver brought itt on a rainy day. And what came out of the case was quite like what you mention above.
It had so drastically changed that I just could not believe it, and so disappointed, literally tore off the strings and renewed them.
At that time I hadn´t yet learned how grossly some guitars will react to humidity fluctuation.
The axe recovered soon, and after some days of breaking in at my place, the shop owner was amazed about its actual sound and hang it back on the wall with a price increase of several hundreds €.
Just saying. Maybe that Arcangel wasn´t that bad, but just discontend with the climate of that moment?
-
Besides, me don´t estimate my individual self as dismissing modern luthery. In fact, I admire it a lot. ( And there is one custom-made baby sitting in a case somewhere and waiting for someone some day to pick her up and schlep her across the pond. Hopefully.)
It is just that I fancy aged / long performing wood to add a certain quality.
Ruphus
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Date Apr. 14 2014 15:50:39
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estebanana
Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Stradivarius? You'd be better of... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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quote:
Its shrowing dirt when you use something that I said in another thread that has nothing to do with this one and where I was not capable of expressing myself in YOUR language and where I apologied for that.
But of course you have the right to use whatever and do whatever on this foro. Mister Superior. You always do it. Again and again
Dont feel sorry for me, but you are a true ignorant when you say that you dont belive that us, non native english speakers dont understand your language and your culture. We dont. Just as you dont understand my culture. Du er og vil altid være en latterlig narrehat.
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This is the last thing I'm going to say and then you get the last word.
You've been in this foro for ten years conducting business primarily in English which I understand is your forth language? I could be wrong. I have heard that you speak Danish, Spanish, French and English. I see that you have a good guitar making practice and that many of your contacts are made in English. If you can conduct business in your forth language you don't have a language deficit or handicap. What you have is a language advantage.
I'm pretty certain your Spanish is on a level I can never achieve at this point in my life not having lived in a Spanish speaking country as long as you. I'm certain I will never learn Danish, and French I have very little reason or time to learn although I am intrigued by the possibility.
You have several advantages over me, the average American who speaks one language fluently and Spanish at a rudimentary level. So forgive my disbelief about your language comprehension troubles, but I'm not really feeling you when you complain about language issues. You clearly have an education and command of English as well as at least two other languages.
I enjoy writing and playing with English, I don't have any remarkable skills at writing in my native language, but I try to keep it fresh and amusing.
As far as being superior, I flat out reject your implication I am superior. I have pride in my lineage as a maker of instruments and I simply love to recount the days I spent with my teachers. Those were some of the best times I've ever had and I would love to see them again. None of them were famous but they are all important to me.
Like I said before, you work your side of the street and I'll work mine and everything will be fine.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 15 2014 12:12:37
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