RE: Paco's masterpiece

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aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

Every tonality has its own identity and G# sounds very different from F#.

Hmm... Classical guitarists play in all keys without capo. I'm on a learning curve you see.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 21:26:10

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

The open strings give tarantas a special inflection, so you can't transpose it easily without a capo.

aeolus, why don't you try playing the same piece of music without a capo and with it on frets 1-6. It might open your eyes to a lot of things.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 21:35:01

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

I'm on a learning curve you see.

you're not learning anything really here, you're just going round in circles repeating the same boorish nonsense.
Perhaps you don't remember the previous debacle over your post of a classical guitarist playing Fuente Y Caudal?
Or perhaps you just thought it was such a lot of "fun" winding people up with this crap you'd have another go....?

rhetorical questions, don't bother answering, you'll probably have forgotten by next week anyway and be doing it all over again....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 21:38:07

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

Really, I am not trying to wind up anyone. I posted this thread in all innocence. The vicious responses such as yours are regrettable. (to me)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 21:42:23

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

This:
Capo2
---0--------------
---0-------------
---0--------------
---4-----------------
---4---------------
---2--------------

Sounds much different then this:
---2-----------------
---2-----------------
---2-------------------
---6-----------------
---6------------------
---4--------------

quote:

I posted this thread in all innocence.

Get outta here, you've never seen our reaction to classical guitarists playing flamenco on here?????? You know us by now and unless you've got aspergers you should've EASILY been able to judge the reaction.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 21:47:50

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

Get outta here, you've never seen our reaction to classical guitarists playing flamenco on here?????? You know us by now and unless you've got aspergers you should've EASILY been able to judge the reaction.

You want me to leave? BooHoo. What I can't understand is why? Why the extreme hatred of classical guitarists. That's what I am trying to understand.

Why shouldn't the piece be played without a capo if it utilizes the resonance of the guitar better?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 21:55:52

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

Best

pink

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 22:00:30

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

Nothing like canned laughter.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 22:02:53

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

Flamenco guitarists usually look like guys who just grab a guitar and bang the crap out of it.

Classical guitarists usually look like pretentious boring people.

I never said bad things about classical guitarists but if just by their posture alone we get the total opposite of flamenco players, how come that you "can't understand why"?

Now getting into the playing... should be even more obvious.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 22:04:40

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

[/quote]

Hmm...I'm on a learning curve you see.
[/quote]

Watch it again dear.

Best

Pink

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 22:06:40

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

Flamenco guitarists usually look like guys who just grab a guitar and bang the crap out of it.

Classical guitarists usually look like pretentious boring people.

Oh come on. Is that all music is to you.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 22:15:04

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

What I can't understand is why? Why the extreme hatred of classical guitarists. That's what I am trying to understand.

So you admit to baiting! Of course you were....

We don't all hate classical guitarists, but even the people that like it will tell you it's not comparable. I'm not currently saying flamenco is better (even though it is

) It's just a completely different beast. It would be like if I continually tried posting videos of metal guitarists trying to get everyone to love and admire them. They just wont, this is a flamenco forum, not a flamenco/classical forum.
I personally only hate classical guitarists that thumb their nose at flamenco, they make me want to golpe their hausers! lol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 22:17:46

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

So you admit to baiting! Of course you were....

No I wasn't. What I am begining to see is that the palos require a certain attitude that is graven in stone and any deviation from that such as a classical guitarists free wheeling interpretation is sacrilegious. Am I right?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 22:26:16

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

a classical guitarists free wheeling interpretation is sacrilegious. Am I right?

Beyond sacrilegious, it's just plain wrong, not correct. I know people like to say "Art is free man, nothing is wrong just different, you can't judge my art." One thing I love about flamenco is such a thing as correct and incorrect. And a free wheeling interpretation by some classical guitarist is going to be wrong 99% of the time.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 22:30:08

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

Classical guitarists are mainly former flamenco players with lousy timing.

It's a scientific fact.

On my way to create an account at delcamp and ask stuff like "Why don't you do golpes? What's the story behind that gayish right hand? Why don't you like flamenco?".

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 22:34:16

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

What's the story behind that gayish right hand?

That's getting pretty far afield wouldn't you say.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 22:42:06

kikkoman

Posts: 108
Joined: Nov. 19 2009

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

What's the story behind that gayish right hand?

wow. you certainly know how to choose your words.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 22:59:30

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

On my way to create an account at delcamp and ask stuff like "Why don't you do golpes? What's the story behind that gayish right hand? Why don't you like flamenco?".

Lol, I may join you.
"Why are all of you so slow?" "Why do you guys talk about guitar more then play it?" "How come only the top 1% of classical players are bearable to listen to?"
hahaha

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 23:05:05

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

What I am begining to see is that the palos require a certain attitude that is graven in stone and any deviation from that such as a classical guitarists free wheeling interpretation is sacrilegious. Am I right?

No, you're not right.

What's at issue is an awareness of, and respect for, the differences between distinct genres of music, and of the techniques and subtleties of interpretation appropriate to each.
In such a "free wheeling interpretation" as the example you give, this awareness is pitifully lacking, and the music suffers accordingly.

rojarosguitar said:
"It reminds me classical players who have a great technique of their instrument think they can automatically play jazz (or flamenco in this context). Big error ..."

The same phenomenon occurs in the other direction and between various genres. The flamenco guitarist who played a piece of Albeniz in the film "Vicky Cristina Barcelona" did it badly (and, ironically, out of time). I was at a concert where the guitarist of a famous prog-rock band played a piece of Bach, also badly. Then there are the opera singers who try to sing Broadway tunes without adjusting their technique, or pop singers who take on a classical piece with gruesome results.

In each case the motivation may have been, as rojarosguitar suggests, "I can play guitar well, and I like that piece, therefore I can play that piece".
But there is more to it than that, and to overlook that fact is either arrogant or astonishingly naive. What you charitably characterize as "free wheeling" here is just ill-informed.

To wish to expand one's horizons by learning another genre of music is an admirable thing, but it must be done with awareness and respect and a commitment to serious study and practice over a considerable period of time.
Otherwise the results will be, as Shroomy says "not worthy of being played in front of an audience. ".

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 23:12:19

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

Superb. Flawless technique. But still...to laid back. Lacks the fire of Artyom Dervoed. Yes his tremolo is amateurish. I really think the lack of a capo contributes to the presentation. Why would one need a capo but to ease the difficulties?

good grief man, why do you have to be so annoying?

Oh here it seems paco must have been practicing...look at him showing off here playing Taranta with no capo.

http://youtu.be/Vakx58fh4bA

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 23:24:00

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

By "gayish" I meant the "broken wrist" kind of position, something that is usually related to gay males.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 23:26:02

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to aeolus)

[Deleted by Admins]

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 0:03:59

Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

So, I haven't shown up much lately, but apparently people here now say things like Paco "lacks the fire of Artyom Dervoed."

Yes, much the way Einstein lacked the brilliance of Oysplafen Grodijzma.

See? I can make up names too.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 1:27:31

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

You forgot nuance .... nuance .... NUANCE!
Paco lacks fire and nuance here and is not very flamboyant.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 3:50:38

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

Oysplafen Grodijzma.

Ah yes, he discovered Jizmoglobin!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 4:04:27

mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

If you think Paco's version is good, imagine what this would sound like with Ronnie Benise playing it with a pick, a chamber ensemble, the candle aisle from Bed Bath and Beyond and a Mexican showgirl with a flower in her hair

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 5:09:38

Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to mark74)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark74

If you think Paco's version is good, imagine what this would sound like with Ronnie Benise playing it with a pick, a chamber ensemble, the candle aisle from Bed Bath and Beyond and a Mexican showgirl with a flower in her hair

Man, Benise makes everything like, at least eight times more passionate and fiery.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 10:17:35

mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus)

I hope Benise does a tribute album of Paco covers. You haven't really heard Reflejo de Luna until until you've heard it played with a pick and a chamber ensemble

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 17:22:23