Help me choose between guitars

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deepocean

Posts: 10
Joined: Mar. 31 2014
From: Amsterdam, Freiburg, Tehran

Help me choose between guitars

Hello,

I have been on this forums for a week reading about Flamenco guitars. I am beginner but would like to start with a good flamenco guitar. The guitar must be made in Spain as I personally feel Chinese guitars take away from the experience even though they may be a good value.

I have narrowed the search down to the following guitars, I would appreciate it if you can narrow down the choice a bit more by selecting the best 3 lets say.

Heard in person
- (eur 1200) Hnos Sanchis Lopez 2F Spruce top & Rosewood back
- (eur 1250) Camps Primiera Spruce & Rosewood

- (eur 1250) Camps FL-S 11 Spruce & Cypress (+Fishman electronics)
- (eur 725) Paco Castillo 215FR Spruce & Rosewood
- (eur 950) Alhambra 7Fp Negra German Spruce & Rosewood
- (eur 1325 ) Alhambra 10Fp Negra German Spruce & Rosewood
- (eur 1025 ) Joan Cashmira 142 Canadian Cedar & Laminated Rosewood (back)
- (eur 1350 ) Joan Cashmira 144 German Spruce & Rosewood

I have already been visiting a few stores including one that exclusively sells flamencos. Here I heard the Hnos Sanchis Lopez 2F and the Camps Primiera in action. Both sounded really well but I noticed that the strings of the Sanchis were touching the neck of the guitar, is it possible to readjust this or is this a flaw in the design? The more expensive Camp sounded a bit better also. But the Sanchis had a beautiful red finish. Truly an amazing guitar that I just wanted to pick up every time plus it was a couple of hundred euros cheaper.

I have not heard the other guitars in person (only on youtube) as I cannot find any local dealer here in southern Germany, I may wait with my purchase untill I get back in Amsterdam where I can try more guitar brands. If you know more sources with better prices I would appreciate that too of course. Looking forward to your comments!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2014 8:37:43

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to deepocean)

Hi deepocean!

Welcome to the foro!

In la guitarra in Amsterdam you can try out a lot of flamenco guitars

Your question is difficult to answer....if you take 3 guitars of one brand and model, they are all different.
If I where you, I would narrow down my search to go for a solid wood guitar, 1- focus on playability 2- focus on sound.

All the best, greetings from Holland.

P.S.

Edsart Udo de Haes (a professional flamenco guitarist living in Amsterdam) had a while ago an Eladio Fernandez guitar for sale from 1978.
A very old school sounding peghead blanca. He wanted 1500 euro for it.
I do not know if he sold it or not, but if you are interested, I can contact him for you.

Peter.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2014 8:58:08

deepocean

Posts: 10
Joined: Mar. 31 2014
From: Amsterdam, Freiburg, Tehran

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to deepocean)

dank voor je bericht Peter :-) (Thanks for your reply)

However in their webshop I only see one of the brands that I am after.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2014 9:06:42

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to deepocean)

Forget about brands and the colour of the finish, take this advice

quote:

If I where you, I would narrow down my search to go for a solid wood guitar, 1- focus on playability 2- focus on sound.

more specifically the second part

quote:

1- focus on playability 2- focus on sound

in my experience Sanchis and (Valeriano) Bernal are the best of the budget guitars, but you need to play each one and pick the best

quote:

Both sounded really well but I noticed that the strings of the Sanchis were touching the neck of the guitar, is it possible to readjust this or is this a flaw in the design?

as in constantly touching? constantly buzzing really badly when you play? or just a nice comfortable low action with a light overall flamenco buzz?

quote:

the Sanchis had a beautiful red finish. Truly an amazing guitar that I just wanted to pick up every time plus it was a couple of hundred euros cheaper.

sounds like your choice is made!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2014 11:26:12

Morante

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to gerundino63)

Would be nice to have a guitar de Eladio (a great friend of Valeriano Bernal) to accompany the guitar of his brother

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2014 15:52:22

deepocean

Posts: 10
Joined: Mar. 31 2014
From: Amsterdam, Freiburg, Tehran

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

as in constantly touching? constantly buzzing really badly when you play? or just a nice comfortable low action with a light overall flamenco buzz?

The beautiful Rosewood backed Sanches guitar had a sloppy finish which made me doubt the overall quality of the guitar. The seller told me that in this price range these types of errors are more common.

1 - 2 of the strings coming from the fingerboard, going over the nut into the hole of the Headstock was touching the sides of the headstock holes. If you find my explanation confusing please watch the youtube video below: 08:40 till 08:50 minutes

2 - The distance between the strings on the saddle was uneven. E.g. the distance between the 5th and 6th string was larger than the distance between the 5th and the 4th string. Is this a design / implementation error on the guitar or can it be tuned/adjusted?

Finally, I understand that the Camps has a bi-directional truss rod built in. I read on the forum that some people consider this as a benefit that also strengthens the overall construction while the others are indifferent to it. So this should add to Camps robustness and durability in the long run, am I correct?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 2 2014 16:28:05

deepocean

Posts: 10
Joined: Mar. 31 2014
From: Amsterdam, Freiburg, Tehran

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to deepocean)

After reading some more and also speaking with some forum members I have narrowed down the search a bit more to the following guitars (all around eur 1000):

- Hnos Sanchis Lopez 2F Spruce top & Rosewood back
- Camps FL-S 11 Spruce & Cypress (+Fishman electronics)
- Valeriano Bernal Prodigy

And the search continues ...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 7:08:30

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to deepocean)

+1 for Bernal.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 8:29:16

deepocean

Posts: 10
Joined: Mar. 31 2014
From: Amsterdam, Freiburg, Tehran

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to deepocean)

By the way I also read about Antonio Bernal guitars, these are I assume totally different from the Valeriano Bernal? I guess Bernal is a common Spanish name.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 10:35:09

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to deepocean)

quote:

By the way I also read about Antonio Bernal guitars, these are I assume totally different from the Valeriano Bernal? I guess Bernal is a common Spanish name.

as far as I know not the same. I only know Valeriano Bernal. in Algodonales.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 12:55:59

deepocean

Posts: 10
Joined: Mar. 31 2014
From: Amsterdam, Freiburg, Tehran

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to deepocean)

Yes, I just read in another thread they are family and related.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 12:57:56

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to deepocean)

I have tried out probably around 20 different Sanchis Lopez 2F
(both Blanca and Negra) during the last years.
Once in a while you can even find one which is amazingly good for the price, almost as good as a 1F/1F extra. But sometimes some of them are just ok guitars and sometimes there are also some optical issues and minor faults, nothing too serious but still..
( I actually told the brothers they should try to improve the quality of the workmanship and they were honestly interested to get feedback and will do their best to improve even more)

You have to try out these type of entry level guitars and pick the best.
All in all I would recommand them in this price range over the other options,
because of the feel and sound.

Camps is very good in quality and workmanship, but I personally dont like the sound/feel/pulsation so much.

btw, Sanchis bros told me they are now using the carbon neck reinforcement thingy in all their new 1F extra guitars starting 2014. Maybe as an option also available for the 2F.

Bernal are good too.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 14:22:40

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to Arash)

Hi Arash,

When I met David Sanchis in summer 2009 he asked me if I knew Arash?!
They are both nice and honest chaps and I also met the master Ricardo which I think I've told the story here!

A

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 14:33:21

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to Argaith)

yep, cool bros.
missed the story about Ricardo (or at least i can't remember..)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 14:40:20

Morante

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to deepocean)

He is a sobrino (nephew). The taller of Valeriano in Algodonales is now run by his son, Rafa, whose personal guitars are top class: check out Keko Baldomero, who has a great one. These are out of your Price range, but the taller in Algodonales still funcions.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 16:27:10

deepocean

Posts: 10
Joined: Mar. 31 2014
From: Amsterdam, Freiburg, Tehran

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to Arash)

That's also the impression I got from the HSL 2F that I saw at Mundo Flamenco, there were some sloppy things that I mentioned above. The carbon reinforcement adds another EUR 100 to the total price and so does the cutaway.

To my untrained ears (and also according to Johannes) that particular Camps and Sanchis sounded the same. I wish that particular Camps had the same beautiful red finish

then I would already have bought a guitar.

Bernals have even two reinforcements I have read. I have contacted Pim to see if he can find me a good guitar without major flaws. I really love the look of these guitars. Not sure if they all sound this good but if I can get a guitar that sounds as good as this one I am an happy camper:

Anyone knows the name of this song?

What do you guys think of the "Antonio Bernal" Flamenco Pro. 10? Anyone experience with this guitar?

quote:

I have tried out probably around 20 different Sanchis Lopez 2F
(both Blanca and Negra) during the last years.
Once in a while you can even find one which is amazingly good for the price, almost as good as a 1F/1F extra. But sometimes some of them are just ok guitars and sometimes there are also some optical issues and minor faults, nothing too serious but still..
( I actually told the brothers they should try to improve the quality of the workmanship and they were honestly interested to get feedback and will do their best to improve even more)

You have to try out these type of entry level guitars and pick the best.
All in all I would recommand them in this price range over the other options,
because of the feel and sound.

Camps is very good in quality and workmanship, but I personally dont like the sound/feel/pulsation so much.

btw, Sanchis bros told me they are now using the carbon neck reinforcement thingy in all their new 1F extra guitars starting 2014. Maybe as an option also available for the 2F.

Bernal are good too.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 18:33:46

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Help me choose between guitars (in reply to deepocean)

In that price range you could also check Kremona. They all come in natural color but if you like crispy/loud/trebly guitars you surely won't be disappointed.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2014 18:38:38