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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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 RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (in reply to Guest)
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Escribano, shame on you 
Serious dude, i think your opinion of the kings is far too bad, than is must. Yes they play almost exclusively rumbas, but they can also play better stuff, meanwhile their rumbas are not bad either!
I like the voices sometimes also, and their picado, ill mention it again and again, is my favorite regarding the tone.
Lionel, try this one.
It has also the tabbing, but you want also learn the chord names, at least the basic ones (major/minor + 7s...) otherwise you will get probs. In fact here are also programs like Guitar Alchemist FREE, which show you all chords and scales, but its very annoying to look up every chord, so learn at least the basics!
And what about rumba? I thought, as i read, rumba would come from Cuba?
_____________________________
Фламенко
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 1 2005 18:25:16
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Ricardo
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (in reply to Guest)
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Manitas is the father of half the Gypsy Kings, jose reyes the father of the other half. A while back we had a discussion on Manitas. Here's what I said:
quote:
A lot of flamencos and flamenco aficionados underestimate the rumba. The french gypsies like Manitas that specialized in it, are really great at it, especially guitarwise. There are details there that are easily overlooked by flamencos who spend more time on 12 count rhythms or tangos. But Manitas did choose to record bulerias, which he did not truely understand or feel. Why?
I have had the opportunity to jam w/ the Gypsy Kings a few times. It was great. They can do palmas por bulerias, and sing fandangos naturales and tangos/tanguillo ala Camaron. They don't know how to sing the main forms of flamenco, but they are BIG aficionados. They can "fake" it for fun. Tonino is the only one who IS a flamenco, and can play ALL the forms well. We jammed on bulerias, his style is PDL from the 70's. He has equal fun playing both bulerias and rumba, and so do I. Playing rumba is not just about making money, and it is not "South American", it is very Spanish. At least the rumba we are talking about.
I don't think less of Manitas and the Kings because they play lots of rumba, they are true masters of it. In Jerez they do bulerias all day and night. In the French Gypsy culture it is rumba. They do what they do, and at least they are big aficionados of flamenco, just like me. Not everyone inspired by Paco de Lucia can play as good as him, and learn that much being born outside of Spain.
The singers in the Kings don't know how to sing bulerias, that is for sure. But honestly, I don't understand why. They are so good at rumba/tangos, but that is all they like to sing, but it would not be hard for them if they WANTED to learn it. But even in Spain, not every singer is required to master ALL the palos. Anyway, I consider it a great honor to have jammed w/ them.
Ricardo
Also to those aficionados who say Gypsy Kings are not flamenco AT ALL, I challenge them to listen to the song Serana and tell us what traditional cante they are singing.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 2 2005 14:13:19
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Ricardo
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (in reply to XXX)
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Hi, go to a salsa club and ask the DJ to put on Cuban Rumba. Then ask him for Gypsy Kings. Not related at all. The "rumba" accent pattern X--x--x-, x--x--x- etc, probably orginates in Africa. But you can find that accent pattern in all types of music with 2 beats. A common 4 beat pattern, which is different, would be x--x--x--x--x---, etc. So some African beats made it to Cuba and other latin american countries. Hence Afro-Cuban or Afro-Latin rhythms. But once you get into that music, you have to learn about the clave. That is what people feel and dance to.
I don't really know all the claves but here is Son clave:X--X--X---X-X--- and the other feeling of the same accent pattern: --X-X---X--X--X-
The "rumba Clave" is X--X---X--X-X---, only one accent is different, but it means everything. The other feel of the same pattern: --X-X---X--X---X
Notice both claves are 5 accents over 16 notes. It is felt as 16th notes in 4 time (4 beats with 5 synchopated accents against the beat). In other words, the latin Rumba clave is based on 4 beat accent pattern. Here again is the "flamenco Rumba" clave: X--X--X-, which is 3 accents over 8 notes. It is a 2 beat rhythm. Subtle but very important difference.
One could go through and show the same similarities and differences between the Argentine tango and Tango flamenco. In the end it is really about the specifics of guitar strumming, rhythmic feel, singing style etc. Rumba, Guajira, Tango, mean very different things depending where in the world you are. They are just labels. You can't start pounding out some hardcore Carmague Rumba on your flamenco guitar in an Afro-Cuban band, without getting some funny looks!
Ricardo
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 2 2005 19:37:53
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