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el carbonero

 

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007
 

about ramirez guitar ?? 
Hello,

I wonder why the pros dont use the ramirez blanca ?

Are there a good guitars for flamenco ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 9:38:34
 
Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: el carbonero
Are there a good guitars for flamenco ?


I heard somewhere that 'Condes' are supposed to be good for flamenco, maybe you should try one?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 10:43:35
 
el carbonero

 

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
i have one conde.
But i never try a blanca ramirez .
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 10:48:12
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1890
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
I use a Ramirez FL2, estudio model, but a very good, balanced instrument, excellent for accompaniment mainly. As far as I know, Max (Bursche) has used a pretty good Ramirez and he sounds awesome with it. Manolo Sanlúcar used to perform with one as well. They're good guitars, but probably in the same price range better options exist.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 12:04:21
 
athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
I love his Ramirez but he says his Conde is way better.
quote:

As far as I know, Max (Bursche) has used a pretty good Ramirez and he sounds awesome with it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 12:26:11
 
el carbonero

 

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
Please it's not the conde thread .

If anyone have opinion about ramirez blanca.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 12:27:47
 
Morante

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
I have a friend in London who went to Madrid to choose his Ramirez, a blanca with pegs. I have played it and I was impressed. Perhaps there are guitars which might sound a little better, but few which are better made, an aspect which is often forgotten.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 12:38:28
 
leigh

 

Posts: 16
Joined: Mar. 28 2013
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
El Payo Humberto Plays a ramirez blanca sounds good on his videos
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 13:08:56
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
Played a few Ramirez blanca. Sounded pretty old school. i liked them.
The playability was okay.
For the same money I could once choose between a Ramirez blanca and a Jose Lopez Bellido, and choose for the last one.
The playability was much better from the Jose Lopez Bellido.

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 14:09:34
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
quote:

If anyone have opinion about ramirez blanca.


Maybe you need to be aware that there is no "Jose Ramirez" any more.

I think most 'Ramirez' guitars today are made by other nameless luthiers, working from their own shops, under the 'supervision' of Amalia Ramirez.

They still sell some nice guitars, but not quite the quality that Jose 1, 11 & 111 did. . .

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 14:21:18
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to gerundino63) 
I have played an old one from the early seventies, really nice guitar, the owner said they are not made like that anymore.

Jose Luis Rodriguez plays Ramirez

http://tomaflamenco.com/en/lessons/19-falsetas-por-granaina

http://tomaflamenco.com/en/lessons/22-falsetas-for-solea-por-bulerias

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 14:23:07
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

Maybe you need to be aware that there is no "Jose Ramirez" any more.

I think most 'Ramirez' guitars today are made by other nameless luthiers, working from their own shops, under the 'supervision' of Amalia Ramirez.

I'm not mentioning the "C" word.... but that sounds disturbingly familiar.

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 14:28:13
 
el carbonero

 

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
quote:

Played a few Ramirez blanca. Sounded pretty old school. i liked them.
The playability was okay.
For the same money I could once choose between a Ramirez blanca and a Jose Lopez Bellido, and choose for the last one.
The playability was much better from the Jose Lopez Bellido.


really ? but about the sound wich was better ?

I have a jose lopez bellido negra and it's easy to play ,it's true.
But i want to change it for a blanca .
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 14:46:54
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
The sound of the Bellido I liked more too.
The sustain was longer from the Ramirez, and the Bellido was more dry.
If you want a nice blanca look for an Anders Eliasson. The playability / sound is superb.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 14:55:30

C. Vega

 

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to britguy) 
"Maybe you need to be aware that there is no "Jose Ramirez" any more.

I think most 'Ramirez' guitars today are made by other nameless luthiers, working from their own shops, under the 'supervision' of Amalia Ramirez.

They still sell some nice guitars, but not quite the quality that Jose 1, 11 & 111 did. . ."

_______________________________________________________________

Sorry, Britguy, but that's simply not true.

There is still a Jose Ramirez. He's Jose Enrique Ramirez (hijo), one of the twin sons of the late Jose Ramirez IV. He is known as Enrique. He's very involved in the business that is under the supervision of his aunt Amalia Ramirez who is the sister of Jose IV. Enrique's younger sister Cristina is also with the family firm. Cristina is primarily involved with the administrative end of things while Enrique is more of a "hands on" type.

All of the "professional" models listed on the Ramirez website www.guitarrasramirez.com are made in their own workshop in Madrid by a team of six or so skilled workers and a few underlings doing some preliminary pre-fabrication work.
The finishing work is farmed out but everything else is done in-house. They make a total of about 140 instruments annually.
Their various student models, etc. are all outsourced to several different manufacturers but they are supposedly set up and adjusted in the Ramirez shop.
The entire Ramirez operation is small totaling less than twenty employees.

The current "real" Ramirez flamencos are still very nice guitars but, like most new Ramirez instruments, somewhat overpriced. They really haven't changed over the years. As one poster said, they are kind of "old school" but I happen to like that type of guitar.
I have an old one, a 1963 example with pegs, that's very cool. It may not have the volume or punch of some newer guitars but for traditional stuff it's great fun to play.

Sabicas was also a Ramirez player.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 15:02:09
 
Morante

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
If U live in Madrid, go visit José Romero, an ex Ramirez maestro who works at a very high level and only makes flamencas.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 15:03:36
 
el carbonero

 

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
quote:

The "real" current Ramirez flamencos are still very nice guitars but, like most new Ramirez instruments, somewhat overpriced. They really haven't changed over the years. As one poster said, they are kind of "old school" but I happen to like that type of guitar.
I have an older one, a 1963 example with pegs, that's very cool. It may not have the volume or punch of some newer guitars but for traditional stuff it's great fun to play.


That mean the blanca ramirez have low volume ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 15:14:00
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

Maybe you need to be aware that there is no "Jose Ramirez" any more.

I think most 'Ramirez' guitars today are made by other nameless luthiers, working from their own shops, under the 'supervision' of Amalia Ramirez.




Jose V on the right. Amalia also builds guitars but in his book Things about the Guitar Jose III wrote she was given a tryout in the shop but was relegated to the business end of things. But she rules the roost now and is indefatigable promoter of the mark. the thing of it was in the 70s Ramirez had no competition to speak of. I don't think the shop will ever be on that plane again.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 15:16:32
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to mark indigo) 
Any one know what kind of mike that is.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 16:10:55
 
FERREREZAKI

Posts: 64
Joined: Jul. 10 2013
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to aeolus) 
My favorite, Mighty Juan Serrano can be seen with a Ramirez in some videos from the past!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 16:19:50
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: el carbonero

Hello,

I wonder why the pros dont use the ramirez blanca ?

Are there a good guitars for flamenco ?


Well, don't know if you heard of these guys, but these Pros seem to like them just fine for flamenco:





And this guy just went with a Ramirez 1A classical with tap plate and low bridge:


I will say they are not quiet guitars, tend to be louder than Condes. Overall decent sound, but I for one don't care for the Cedar top guitars as much. However I do know of one built 1990 cedar top blanca for sale that has a great sound and feel, and would love to have it for my collection. Seriously considering it. Wouldn't trade anything I got already however.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 17:21:49

C. Vega

 

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
Ramirez didn't start using cedar for tops until late 1964 or early 1965. Anything earlier will be spruce. They continued using spruce after the introduction of cedar and still use both today.

Sabicas liked the cedar tops.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 17:27:04
 
timoteo

 

Posts: 219
Joined: Jun. 22 2012
From: Seattle, USA

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to Ricardo) 
I saw that María Vargas video just last week.

Worst. Translation. Ever.



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Attachment (1)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 18:18:05
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to Ricardo) 
www.guitarsalon.com has a 2012 spruce Ramirez blanca for a reduced price of $9625. My ex-wife paid $450 in 1967 for the cedar blanca from Locker's in Philadelphia that she gave to me. It's still a great guitar…

Adjusting for inflation, the 1967 price equates to $3140 in 2014 dollars. Quoted prices on the net for late '60s-early '70s Ramirez blancas with Antonio Martinez's initials on the heel block range from about $5,500 up to $pretty silly, so the guitar has beaten inflation somewhat.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 19:31:22
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to C. Vega) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: C. Vega

As one poster said, they are kind of "old school" but I happen to like that type of guitar.


After hearing Grisha´s GSI recording with a contemporary Ramirez flamenca, I thought they had adapted to modern characteristics.
The guitar in that take sounds crisp, fast and pristine. I was impressed.
( Having been very critical about their overpriced classicals, this example was however advocating their current flamenco line.)

- Which is not to say that me would dislike the old school sound.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2014 22:56:30

C. Vega

 

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to Ruphus) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

After hearing Grisha´s GSI recording with a contemporary Ramirez flamenca, I thought they had adapted to modern characteristics.
The guitar in that take sounds crisp, fast and pristine. I was impressed.


This only serves to illustrate once again that the sound depends just as much, if not more so, on the player as the instrument.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2014 0:00:42
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1890
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to C. Vega) 
my guitar sounds exactly the same, it's dry and a bit trebly...but i do agree, the player is the most important in all cases
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2014 0:48:46
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to aeolus) 
quote:

Any one know what kind of mike that is.
looks like an Audio Tecnica ATM 350

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2014 11:17:17
 
el carbonero

 

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
i forget this video :



it make me sad ,the old paco video and this one with enrique con ramirez guitars.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 26 2014 11:27:50
 
el carbonero

 

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007
 

RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero) 
Finally anyone know the blanca with srpuce top ,of the 2000 era ?

Are there a good volume for dance accompaaning without mic ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 5 2014 16:02:35
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