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tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

New guitar "break in"? 
I've heard from some people that it takes 6months to several years for a new guitar to "open up" or "break in", does this mean that the sound becomes better or more dynamic after this period?

I guess I could just ask what's the difference in sound between the same guitar 1 day old vs 10 years old?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2014 16:58:38
 
Don Dionisio

 

Posts: 360
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Durham, NC

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
One of the things I have noticed with different guitars that I have owned through
the years is that the guitar is more responsive after it has been played a lot and
stays that way without closing up again.
For me that means that the guitar reaches good volume quickly and I can hear
a good quality of sound.
I recently bought an older flamenco guitar from 1977 that wasn't played very much
and after about 6 months of playing it everyday, it seems to maintain its openness
and a good balanced sound right out of the case (something it didn't do when I first
bought it).
I think there is a mixture of subjectivity and objectivity whenever you discuss this.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2014 17:33:53
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
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RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

I've heard from some people that it takes 6months to several years for a new guitar to "open up" or "break in", does this mean that the sound becomes better or more dynamic after this period?


When we finish a guitar we string it up to pitch, strum it a couple of times and hang it up overnight. I don't even want to hear it until it's had strings on for a while. It takes several hours to begin to sound right and much longer (months to years) to reach it's peak.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2014 18:06:40
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
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RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
quote:

When we finish a guitar we string it up to pitch, strum it a couple of times and hang it up overnight. I don't even want to hear it until it's had strings on for a while. It takes several hours to begin to sound right and much longer (months to years) to reach it's peak.


I do exactly the same.
The first days are awfull. Basically, what happens is that new guitars get better in all aspects. Some change faster than others. Some change more than others. The thing that changes the most IMHO is that the trebles get fuller and stronger.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2014 19:21:01
 
tele

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Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
Is it true that the same guitar will change differently if it is played by another person for the first five-ten years or so?

I don't know, to me always a good sounding guitar is good sounding guitar, but is there such thing as guitar adapting to the players style of playing?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2014 15:16:23
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
quote:

is there such thing as guitar adapting to the players style of playing?


I don't think so, but it certainly works the other way. The player learns to get the best from the guitar. The player practises, the player gets more from the guitar.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2014 8:21:33
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
quote:

Is it true that the same guitar will change differently if it is played by another person for the first five-ten years or so?


In my experience YES. The objective test, of course, was regarding other guitars of my friends that I have known for years and simply didn't play that often. I notice a change, BIG changes over at least a years time, and the more aggressive players that play lots of hard rhythm strumming do a great job opening up the voice of the guitar and making it feel more responsive. I would not put up this hocus pocus sounding info if I had not observed it several times. I admit humidity changes can also be so noticeable, even in old guitars, the difference of the voice can be one day to the next.

One little issue to think about, yes we guitar lovers know we need to store a guitar at 40% humidity yada yada yada....but the hard working pros I know, rarely keep track of the thing, and the guitar is in and out of storage of any kind constantly subjected to extreme environmental changes. It is simply not so practical for hard working pros. So, I am not against admitting that once again the "breaking in" might simply be part of this humidity issue again. (that being nicely dried out guitars sound better than fat wet ones so long as the action is good).

Not surprisingly, and perhaps it's no coincidence, we find many well broken in guitars, LITERALLY are broken on the top....ie little cracks and other signs of humidity damage.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2014 13:57:54
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
quote:

Is it true that the same guitar will change differently if it is played by another person for the first five-ten years or so?


I agree with Ricardo. there´s a big difference between a dmajor noodler and a pro rumbero playing 5 concerts a week and the same guitar will be different
You can work your instrument to make it better. In classical guitars and violin world, its normal to play cromatic scales all the way up and down all strings a few times a day in order to "open up" all tones on the instrument. It helps a lot. Try to play all notes with the same intensity. And a lot of rasguedos help as well.

In the violin world you can buy electronic devices that play deep notes on the bridge. I havent tried. But its said to help breaking in the instrument. I think someone made one for acoustic guitars, but I cant remember who it was.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2014 16:24:23
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
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RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

In the violin world you can buy electronic devices that play deep notes on the bridge. I havent tried. But its said to help breaking in the instrument. I think someone made one for acoustic guitars, but I cant remember who it was.

Tonerite, Timbretech, Primevibe are some of the ones for guitar. I've never used any of them and doubt they have much effect.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2014 18:15:07
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
There used to be an offer to send your guitar in somewhere where it would be inserted on a stationary device that would vibrate your guitar for some days or so.

Now there is something mobile being offered, supposed to work on same principle. http://tonerite.com

Breaking in of guitars and influencing their response in dependence of sounds and volume produced appears plausible to me, and I have had several Cinderella wakenings that appeared quite obvious. ( Also currently experiencing the recovery of a guitar that had been exposed to extreme heat / dryness for hours, and whichs still ongoing improving yet after years is drastic. A bit different case from what´s discussed here, but as I think somewhat related as well.)
I am also of the opinion that antique instruments / long set in wood can provide distinct sonic charme. ( As I assume through countless fluctuation with humidity / relaxation / consolidation of the wood over time.)

Yet, with the vagueness that our senses tend to introduce, you got to wonder why no musical academy ever tried to track these things down scientifically.

I mean among serial productions like from Tacoma there should be found instruments performing very similar, hence within tolerances close enough to serve as siblings for before-and-after experiments.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2014 18:22:23
 
el carbonero

 

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007
 

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
quote:


Is it true that the same guitar will change differently if it is played by another person for the first five-ten years or so?


Maybe that one of some reasons ,why conde sound good, there are play by lot of pro.

Like a ferrari ,this car give his potential when it drive by a pilot.
you and me with a ferrari on normal road have no sense.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2014 19:34:43
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
quote:


Maybe that one of some reasons ,why conde sound good, there are play by lot of pro.

Like a ferrari ,this car give his potential when it drive by a pilot.
you and me with a ferrari on normal road have no sense.


So maybe thats why it makes no sense when you babble about Conde.
Go somewhere else please. You are 100% spam.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2014 7:32:15
 
etta

 

Posts: 341
Joined: Jan. 20 2010
 

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
Regarding the "Tonerite" device mentioned by Jshelton, I have used one for several years on a variety of guitars old and new. The result varies, but it always seems to open and improve the guitar. For a new guitar I leave the device on the guitar for 72 hours. The results can be dramatic.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2014 17:02:47
 
tijeretamiel

 

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
 

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to etta) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: etta

Regarding the "Tonerite" device mentioned by Jshelton, I have used one for several years on a variety of guitars old and new. The result varies, but it always seems to open and improve the guitar. For a new guitar I leave the device on the guitar for 72 hours. The results can be dramatic.


Tonerite in the acoustic guitar side of things creates more polar opinions than C***e does here. Some people swear it improves the guitar, others say it makes the guitar worse with a few saying it has no impact.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2014 17:07:18
 
estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
1.This customer was very happy with Toneright, she said it helped break in the guitar faster without damaging her delicate finger nails.

2. This Customer uses his guitar as an accessory to gaining the love of the finer sex. He excels at playing finger style arrangements of Al Green tunes. The Tone right is in his opinion Tone wrong.

3. Customer three never liked it, but he got a bad crick in his neck because he worked for years to break in a Chinese Conde'.


4. This customer will not give an opinion because he is too polite.









Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (4)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2014 18:11:41
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to estebanana) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

1.This customer was very happy with Toneright, she said it helped break in the guitar faster without damaging her delicate finger nails.


Apparently using a pick, hence tricking us with the mentioning of broken nails, she might be an endorser.

Modern manufacturers seem to be getting ever more slick with finding vendors, now even engaging historical figures.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2014 18:47:39
 
estebanana

Posts: 9351
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RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to Ruphus) 
quote:

Apparently using a pick, hence tricking us with the mentioning of broken nails, she might be an endorser.

Modern manufacturers seem to be getting ever more slick with finding vendors, now even engaging historical figures.


Exaclty.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2014 19:08:40
 
aandyford

 

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RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to etta) 
quote:

Regarding the "Tonerite" device mentioned by Jshelton, I have used one for several years on a variety of guitars old and new. The result varies, but it always seems to open and improve the guitar. For a new guitar I leave the device on the guitar for 72 hours. The results can be dramatic.


I agree, I inadvertently left a tonrite on a new guitar for 3 weeks while i was away
dramatic and positive results
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2014 17:16:13
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to aandyford) 
How about blasting the stereo in front of the guitar? At a modderate volume it vibrates enough to make open strings zing against the frets, even with flat EQ.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2014 17:27:47
 
tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to Sr. Martins) 
I noticed recently that a good guitar will sound good even when it's new, therefore all sorts of methods besides playing it to make it sound better seems to be something that only not so good guitar would require. Or maybe if you are really into pleasing your audiences ears... It's also a good motivator to know that by playing your guitar it will sound better

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2014 19:31:04
 
Anders Eliasson

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RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
Tele, All guitars get better. But I agree a new guitar should sound good from start. If it sounds bad from the start, then it´ll never be a good guitar

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2014 11:19:45
 
tele

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Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
Another aspect of it is while so many people(I'm one of them) are obsessing with quality of the sound and investing thousands to guitars there are just as many flamenco guitarists using guitars under 1k euros and making them sound at least just as good as the 3-7k guitars, because as always, to me at least 90% of the sound quality comes from the fingers, the rest is the guitar. I suppose the expensive guitars with great woods have been in use of the "masses" of the flamenco guitarists much less time than basic guitars(that might be compared to the "segunda models" of today) which were played in the streets and parties of the old school flamencos, yet their sound is what so many guitarists are trying to achieve, a pure traditional flamenco sound, right?
Of course a good sounding guitar will always be great to have and a joy to play, but personally I don't think it adds alot to the guitarists sound quality coming out, perhaps it's just the 10% improvement while the rest of the sound is the 90% the player. But I guess I'm not the only one who really is ready to put some money to get that 10%, even when there's not a whole lot money to spare.
Any thoughts?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2014 13:04:26
 
guitarbuddha

 

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RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

to me at least 90% of the sound quality comes from the fingers, the rest is the guitar.


So far as that goes I agree but.....

Don't forget the importance of sound of the room to the impact of a guitar. A 700k room will tend to sound better than a $600 camper van.

So in general people match the guitar to the room in which it is to be played.

With every choice a player makes as to how to spend his time and money there is competition between the room, the guitar and the technique. And for every choice the rule of diminishing returns extracts it's pound of flesh.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2014 13:41:00
 
jshelton5040

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RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

Tele, All guitars get better. But I agree a new guitar should sound good from start. If it sounds bad from the start, then it´ll never be a good guitar

Probably true most of the time however I recently had the opportunity to hear one of our guitars from several years ago. When we sold it I thought it was a rather unimpressive example of our work and now after many years of hard use it really surprised me. I took it out to the shop to look at the inside to see if we had done something different but it was normal.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2014 14:27:59
 
jshelton5040

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RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

Of course a good sounding guitar will always be great to have and a joy to play, but personally I don't think it adds alot to the guitarists sound quality coming out, perhaps it's just the 10% improvement while the rest of the sound is the 90% the player. But I guess I'm not the only one who really is ready to put some money to get that 10%, even when there's not a whole lot money to spare.
Any thoughts?


Ideally your guitar should always be better than you . A 10% improvement is a lot.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2014 14:31:53
 
Ruphus

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RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
And then there is that thing that preceeds the sound, if you will.
How that thing feels under your fingers, plays with your diaphragm ... How it vibrates from top to bottom, how the strings give in under your fingertips and how they return.
All that leads to how you touch, how you be inspired and after all produce sound.

Seems in all the arts and artisanry; it´s those last of percents, something laymen might not even perceive ( had acquaintance spontaneously hear no difference between a - admittedly exceptional- 500 bucks guitar and a fine vintage flamenca) ... that make a big difference still.

Bread is easy to find anywhere. Why then could I kill for some fine German, French or Italian bread still?
For a little difference, which besides becomes the more relevant, the longer it´s been missing. err ... Maybe that was actually no good example. That difference is not really small. Any gourmand could tell it in a heartbeat.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2014 14:52:48
 
tele

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RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to Ruphus) 
Well I agree comfortability is very important but that doesn't always mean it has to be expensive. I personally like expensive guitars simply because I don't have to buy another one and I have always been addicted to buying guitars ever since I started playing guitar 12 years ago. Luckily I play now mostly flamenco guitar and don't invest in electrics, as there's a whole lots of possibilities to waste your money on. With flamenco it's good that once you have a satisfying guitar you will have a lot more time to play before even thinking about buying another one which you don't need. But indeed it's a great feeling to buy a new great guitar, even if it's unnecessary to make me sound or play better.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2014 15:28:48
 
Ruphus

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RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
Concerning playability, one of the most comfy guitars to me was a cheapo Hernandez.
But that was mainly regarding left hand. Considering what Anders introduced as term "pulsation" for the right hand ( I am thankful for the word) I think the condition that I prefer ( soft, still fast) is only scarcely to be found with inexpensive instruments. ( Have not come across any such nylon guitar anyway, do however own a parlor that excells in all ways).
-

Regarding satisfaction ... It depends on inner vision, I think.
Had I not come across an outstanding guitar long ago, I could easily be fully satisfied with the guitars owned. But with that ideal in mind, I keep chasing. ( There is a guitar waiting for me in US of which I hope to finally end that hunt, once in my hands.)

That thing was just out of this world. I could write poems about it.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2014 15:53:48
 
tele

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RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to Ruphus) 
Yeah top pulsation, in spanish "pulsacion" is important factor and can be adjusted by experienced luthier when building the guitar, I haven't tried many under 1k euro flamenco guitars so i dont know about their pulsation. I think it can be only low-medium-high and somewhere between those three. Soft but fast is good description for good pulsation in my opinion as you said it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2014 15:58:11
 
Anders Eliasson

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RE: New guitar "break in"? (in reply to tele) 
Soft and fast is comfortable but very difficult to build and mostly suited bedroom flamenco players.
Its always a compromise and a tradeoff. So low pulsation, fast, dynamic, high volume, percussive and powerfull is very difficult to get in package and many players will need a tad higher pulsation to suit their playing style and because it makes the other parameters a lot easyer to work with.

A strong generalization will be that the poorer player is more obsessed with sound (that he/she cant produce anyway) while the good players are more obsessed with feel of the instrument. At least thats my experience as a builder and seller.
I personally prefer the instruments that sound good when I play them,

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2014 16:43:43
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