Grisha Goryachev

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Grisha Goryachev

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Aretium

Posts: 277
Joined: Oct. 23 2012

Grisha Goryachev

Just came in from the pub and watched a few of Grisha's videos, has anyone noticed that almost all the videos on youtube of Grisha have as many dislikes as likes? Comments range from "no emotion" "too mechanical" Next time he should throw in a few mistakes and say it was because he was feeling playful. Now obviously the likes and dislikes are not important but I find that especially with classical guitarists they throw in critical phrases such as these. Pretentious rubbish.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 0:48:16

edgar884

Posts: 1975
Joined: Nov. 16 2005

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

The guy is probably the best in the world. I had it out with someone telling me" see this is an example of classical player trying to be Flamenco".
that guy doesn't try, he is outstandingly amazing.

Cant wait to see him in on march 1st here in Slc Utah. And he is doing a master class that I got into somehow.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 1:04:37

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

I think its an illusion based off watching the video and confusing Grisha's facial expression and body posture with the music he is playing. If it was purely audio their would be less dislikes , but maybe less likes at the same time since people like video.. imo anyway

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 5:19:03

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

I wonder if people think that 'cus he's Russian. They think he's Drago from Rocky 4 lol. "My picado vill crush you."
Grisha IS a classical player playing flamenco, and it's great, he gives the attention to detail and tone that a classical gives but does it to flamenco and it's amazing. Last time I saw him he played a bunch of songs that I've heard a thousand times but when he played them in front of me it was like I heard it all over again. I felt what I felt the first time I heard it. He's not the guy that can keep all the gypsies singing dancing and drinking till 5 am sure, but he's his own thing and it's quite special.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 6:04:42

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Leñador)

Grisha is terrific. It only seems reasonable to say otherwise if you have an axe to grind or are unmusical.

Here is what he might do to reach that vital yet unmusical audience who are unmoved by him.

1. Grow his hair long.
2. Adopt a 'spanishy' sounding name.
3. Make shallow blanket statements about the superiority of flamenco over all musics.
4. Stop shaping phrases with sensitivity to underlying harmony and accentuate that particular clumsiness and insensitivity that the unmusical can recognise as puro but is in fact anything but.
5. Get a small army of online morons to badmouth his competition and talk the purest nonsense on his behalf.
6. Instead of admiring other great players who have skills that he finds admirable he should pretend to be better than them. He could also insist that they are doing something wrong or inauthentic.

So thats how to get the unmusical onboard.

As for the others well the standard approach is to throw some work their way and they will become advocates for you. Given a seat on the gravy train they will ignore your excesses and bul1sh1t. And they will cheer wildly for you when they can do so without embarrasment.

I note with approval that these approaches have not been to his taste.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 7:19:13

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

I guess you guys nailed it pretty well.
If Grisha looked like me ( long haired / kind of scalping Sioux) there would probably be much less thelike comments on YT.
It must be visual clues and nationality that provoke the neglect. ( A bit like what I felt when Japanese started getting defeated in Karate by foreigners. Or when fellas from the Netherlands started winning Muai Thai competitions.) Most prominently I suppose the slipovers Grisha used to wear. The anti-rocker knitwear per se.
Actually I liked to see him wearing such, demonstrating self-confidence and how you should use your ears in musical matters / not follow visual expectations.

Finally, there is something to your observation that imperfection contributes to individual phrasing / expression.
When I mentioned this in the classical community regarding Julian Bream´s celebrated personality with playing, folks wanted to drag me to the stake.

But it is true. Personal touch for a good part comes from individual imperfections.
And when someone performs `too flawlessly´ it can appear like "mechanical" to surprised ears.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 9:09:15

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Aretium)

[Deleted by Admins]

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 11:05:53

Aretium

Posts: 277
Joined: Oct. 23 2012

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Guest)

I don't think Grisha is a classical player as the vast majority of his performences are flamenco pieces. When trying an 1890 torres guitar he says that he doesn't do the guitar justice and needs a classical player.

quote:

I wonder if people think that 'cus he's Russian. They think he's Drago from Rocky 4 lol. "My picado vill crush you."

This made me laugh.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 11:25:26

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

quote:

6. Instead of admiring other great players who have skills that he finds admirable he should pretend to be better than them. He could also insist that they are doing something wrong or inauthentic.

Yes, mud slinging, this will work! It works for politicians why not musicians! Alright Grisha, time to start telling people "they got served" and that they're "wack" and they "got no skillz" lolol "My grandmama got a faster picado than you son!"

Your PM's full Buddha...........

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 15:09:52

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Leñador)

Sorry

Fixed

'If the pullover fits wear it.'

John Williams.

'Sabicas is wack'

Sum Yung Tul

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 16:05:20

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

john williams gets similar "dislikes"--too mechanical, no emotion, etc. and he is considered to be one of the best. i guess grisha is in good company.

as i recall my history grisha was a flamenco before he went to the new england conservatory where he studied classical guitar-- at least he was playing flamenco concerts before attending the conservatory and on saturdays when i was at the family's apartment taking lessons from his father.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 19:52:29

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

every guitar player I have ever liked has been accused one time or another of playing "too many notes" or being too "technical". I hope I get the same criticism someday too.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 20:52:44

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

Grisha's an excellent player and too many YT commenters use their eyes more than their ears and hearts. There also seems to be some weirdo troll from Indonesia or something who somehow spam-downvotes his vids.

I wouldn't call him a "classical guitarist", either--them's fightin' words in some parts. He's a guitarist, one who plays both flamenco and classical compositions at a higher level than all but a few handfuls of players--ever.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 21:32:54

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Ricardo)

Okay Ricardo, this vids for you!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 21:34:23

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

quote:

I wouldn't call him a "classical guitarist", either--them's fightin' words in some parts. He's a guitarist, one who plays both flamenco and classical compositions at a higher level than all but a few handfuls of players--ever.

Fair enough, I'll go with that.

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 21:40:52

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to keith)

quote:

ORIGINAL: keith

john williams gets similar "dislikes"--too mechanical, no emotion, etc. and he is considered to be one of the best. i guess grisha is in good company.

flamenco concerts before attending the conservatory and on saturdays when i was at the family's apartment taking lessons from his father.

Hey Keith, I am starting to reconsider my comparison between Grisha and Williams. Whereas noone is technically more clean or consistent than Williams Grisha is consistently far more musical and indeed respectful of the material.

As for the lessons...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 22:51:46

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

Who cares if a bunch of moronics diss him here and there.... at least this way, if you are lucky enough to get a chance to see him live, the hall won't be full of a bunch of tutting turds, moaning purely for the sake of putting other, more cultured people in the position of having to listen to them massage their own egos in a confined ,but acoustically sharing public space....pet hate of mine....the gobby guitar playing critic one row ahead/behind you at a concert who's mouth is more giving than a lady of the nights right hand.
May they stay absent in droves to leave space for those who know and love talent.

Best

pink

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2014 23:26:38

El Burro Flamencuro

Posts: 118
Joined: Nov. 28 2012

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

People are jealous, Grisha is a bad ass. His technical and expressive ability are insane and on top of that...he's a really cool dude. Some people who become even remotely 'known' turn into narcissistic D bags. Even some of the students in my classes start blabbing off to people how they're "playing at a virtuosic level"....meanwhile I'm thinking to myself" if you were a virtuoso, you probably wouldn't be here right now." In my opinion... Confidence is good but over-confidence is never a good thing and can cloud your vision of reality. also makes you look like a dik in the process.
just realized i didn't finish my thought there....i was pointing out that Grisha is definitely pretty 'known' by now but he's not all full of himself. Probably one of the smartest guys too, watch his interview at GSI.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2014 8:22:14

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to guitarbuddha)

guitarbuddha--of the year and a half i took lessons from grisha's father i would say 10% of the time was spent me stopping the lesson to hear grisha practicing in the next room. i was a total beginner and hearing him inspired me. his father is a great teacher and a really nice guy.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2014 12:53:16

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to keith)

quote:

ORIGINAL: keith

guitarbuddha--of the year and a half i took lessons from grisha's father i would say 10% of the time was spent me stopping the lesson to hear grisha practicing in the next room. i was a total beginner and hearing him inspired me. his father is a great teacher and a really nice guy.

And that's supposed to make me LESS jealous !!???

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2014 13:30:37

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

I had quite a similar thing of taking breaks.
My old lady showing her head in the door and saying like: "Could you please stop that dingadang!?"

- Notwithstanding that years later she´d be taking me stranglehold when I refused to play before visitors.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2014 16:36:53

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

I wouldn't call him a "classical guitarist", either--them's fightin' words in some parts. He's a guitarist, one who plays both flamenco and classical compositions at a higher level than all but a few handfuls of players--ever.

I'll just repeat what Larisa said to me as we drove away from the concert by Grisha and Jeremy Mouffe at the house of a local patron of the arts:

"When you asked if I wanted to go, I wondered whether it would be just another stuffy classical guitar concert. But it was so exciting! And they had so much fun playing!…He's such a nice guy, too, very genuine."

The character evaluation was based on a brief chat in Russian, Larisa's acid test….

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2014 18:13:22

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

It's about time someone here recognized my abilities! I am just way better than all those grossly overrated Spaniard guitarists like Pacow, Vincent and Gerard, and look waaaay cooler than them, too! I also have a better blood type and some of the best sweater collections around!

Just kidding!

Seriously guys, thanks for your support!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 19 2014 20:50:10

Aretium

Posts: 277
Joined: Oct. 23 2012

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Grisha)

Men like Grisha make me wish I was a woman. Oh wait too far?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 19 2014 22:44:13

sig

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

Yeah, I've seen those comments too and wonder if the poster(s) have ever performed in public or at a concert or even for friends? Its easy to be judgemental when you can snipe from the trees. Its a whole different world performing in public, for singers and/or dancers versus playing in your bedroom :) Grisha not only is a fantasic player but seems like a genuine person. I don't know him but his comments lead me to believe that he is not arrogant or full of himself because of his skills. Like many of the players on this forum, I'm sure when he was young he worked hard every day, practiced till his fingers hurt and gave up many things in his life to gain the proficiency that we see today.

I find the internet similar to driving a car, when you are in your car its a nice safe cocoon of protection so some folks act like they can do anything. They drive like they own the road, not the car. They exibit bad behaviour, they do things they would not try when face to face with their fellow motorists. Same with the internet, they say things on forums because they feel safe in the knowledge that there are no repercussions to their poor manners if you will.

Its easy to say things on a internet forum as you don't have to back up your words so my feeling is those comments are of little value. Who cares what some pretenter says about me or my abilities, I don't know them and I'm guessing that its mostly imposters that snipe. There are two kinds of people in the world, those who do what they say they they are going to do and everyone else. I suspect its mostly everyone else that leave negative comments.
Sig--

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 20 2014 16:20:48

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to sig)

i do not think it is just the internet to blame for people making comments about a given performer's capabilities. these comments have floated around for years if not centuries. if you read donn pohren's book, lives and legends of flamenco, you will see even mr. pohren often took performers to taks with their "duende". for one good example, mr. pohren acknowledged sabicas' skills but did question how much "duende" he put into his music. the issue of skill and emotion and how to measure the latter is interesting in that the latter is so hard to quantify.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 20 2014 16:48:53

Bulerias2005

Posts: 632
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

Once somebody calls you an "unemotional" musician "focused only on technique", you know you're good.

I don't know if there's any correlation here, but I am Russian as well and I have gotten this criticism when it comes to flamenco. Actually, another related criticism I've gotten was that my flamenco compositions were "too dense" and "too complicated", and that nobody except me would understand them. I was hurt at first, but since then I've realized that those sort of comments stem from insecurity and that individual's own creative bankruptcy.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 20 2014 16:57:21

El Burro Flamencuro

Posts: 118
Joined: Nov. 28 2012

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

I'm just glad they don't call him Grigory anymore.

but there is a video of little grigory jamming on some zarda de monty...he was a bad ass back then too!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 20 2014 18:30:09

Lorenzo714

Posts: 76
Joined: Oct. 8 2013

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Bulerias2005)

Let's be honest here. Russia has put out some truly amazing musicians. As regards to Grisha, having met him & played guitar with him. I can tell you it is truly amazing what Grisha is capable of & if PDL has taken an interest his music I can't believe his playing or even your own Bulerias2005 to be without emotion.(I have also seen your videos) People who say things like that are usually simply full of envy. You would think think an Andalusian would be really excited to here someone from another country embrace their music. But unfortunately they are the ones who often criticize others who play their music as being unauthentic or lacking feeling simply because they cannot come up with anything else to criticize.....so sad

. If people every where embraced all music as universal & these silly issues wouldn't exist.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 20 2014 21:12:49

ramon roman

Posts: 21
Joined: Nov. 9 2012

RE: Grisha Goryachev (in reply to Aretium)

From what I have seen, Grisha is one heck of a guitar player. I have known several russian guys and they were really ok, drank a lot of wine with one of those guys, he was a great sailor, and we would listen to a lot of russian music, mostly songs of the Red Army Band/Chorus. I still whistle one of them daily, but have forgotten the name. I particularly liked Kalinika, and a lot of others. The russian music is very moving. I only wish I could play a fraction of what Grisha plays.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2014 0:10:27