I have a preference for por arriba.

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Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

I have a preference for por arriba.

I like playing things that are in it. I like jamming on it. I like pretending I can write falsetas in it.

Anybody have a tono preference? Taranto? Medio? Granaina? Minera?

I'd probably love tono Taranto more if I was more familiar with it………….

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 4:21:29

rombsix

Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

Depends on the palo, hombre...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 4:55:16

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

Generalmente pues.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 5:16:22

athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

por Taranto
I have many falsetas for the main palos in that tono. I love the lyrical qualites.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 8:23:47

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

I don't have a preference due to lack of knowledge. Por arriba i kinda do get the gist of and really like the Solearas done that way but can any explain to me what por medio is?

I have frequently seen it pop up though hmm..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 10:01:07

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1889
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

i prefer the rondena tuning :)
i love por arriba for soleá, but not for anything else...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 13:31:20

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to withinity)

Por medio basically means flamenco key of A. Por arriba is key of E. Taranto is F# and Rondeña is actually a different tuning, D I believe......

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 13:56:09

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

I think it's a bit like choosing between beers or vines, every good one has their own good thing about it. But in general por arriba I guess is my favourite because it's the traditional bulerias tonality

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 14:40:07

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

Rondeña is actually a different tuning, D I believe......

DADF#BE, so 6th string down to D, 3rd string down to F#. Play in C# Phrygian.

Gerardo has a Soleá in Rondeña tuning played in D Phrygian.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 14:52:19

Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

Normally it is the cantaor who decides whether he wants por arriba or por medio

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 15:09:51

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

Por medio is way more exotic for me. Any palo, solea, siguiriyas, buleria, tientos tangos, fandangos, even rumba.

Por arriba is really nice when you are forced to capo up high though. ANything above 5.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 15:45:45

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

Por medio basically means flamenco key of A. Por arriba is key of E. Taranto is F# and Rondeña is actually a different tuning, D I believe......

I see so Seguiriyas and Buleria would be considered por medio. Do these palos ever get played in another key ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 16:06:27

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to withinity)

quote:

ORIGINAL: withinity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

Por medio basically means flamenco key of A. Por arriba is key of E. Taranto is F# and Rondeña is actually a different tuning, D I believe......

I see so Seguiriyas and Buleria would be considered por medio. Do these palos ever get played in another key ?

Yes, bulerias more so. I heard diego del morao play in concert what he calles seguiriyas in a different tonality and the only thing that was seguiriyas was the name and the compas. To me personally there's no seguiriyas without por arriba tonality

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 17:20:47

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to tele)

quote:

To me personally there's no seguiriyas without por arriba tonality

1. you might mean por medio.

2. Not only Diego but also for example this guy
http://youtu.be/GO2kR5l9CFM
Certainly alot more would express themself in a 'unstandard' key.

3. your sentence is a little bit narrow minded in my 2 cts imo. It's like stating that flamenco is only cante.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 20:00:24

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

I see so Seguiriyas and Buleria would be considered por medio. Do these palos ever get played in another key ?

I wouldn't say they're "considered por medio" I'd say you most often hear them played por medio. But really any palo can be played in any key, it's generally dictated by what the singer wants to do(as Morante said). There's things like Taranto that is a palo and a key, playing "Tono Taranto" is F#. That doesn't mean you HAVE to play toranto in F# though. But it usually is.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 21:04:59

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to mezzo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mezzo

quote:

To me personally there's no seguiriyas without por arriba tonality

1. you might mean por medio.

2. Not only Diego but also for example this guy
http://youtu.be/GO2kR5l9CFM
Certainly alot more would express themself in a 'unstandard' key.

3. your sentence is a little bit narrow minded in my 2 cts imo. It's like stating that flamenco is only cante.

Yes sorry, por medio. I just think that when you change the two essential chords of seguiriyas it loses the essential feel of the palo. Or maybe I'm just yet to hear another tonality which brings out the serious feel of seguiriyas in the traditional tonality. I would like to hear some.
Only an idiot would say flamenco is only cante, so I don't think it can be compared to the matter of other tonalities lacking pure seguiriyas feeling, in my opinion that is.
And my teacher fernando moreno agreed when we discussed the matter, so I guess he is just as narrow minded then.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 21:56:10

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to tele)

quote:

And my teacher fernando moreno agreed when we discussed the matter, so I guess he is just as narrow minded then.

oh really? Fernando agreed with you, what a surprise!
If you ask to hardcore jerezanos aficianodos, the vast majority would agreed with you I suppose. Or you with them

"Only an idiot would say flamenco is only cante"
I wouldn't say idiot. You know colors and taste.

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 22:33:07

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to tele)

quote:

Yes sorry, por medio. I just think that when you change the two essential chords of seguiriyas it loses the essential feel of the palo.

Serrana is somewhat like siguiryas por arriba.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2014 23:00:50

Morante

Posts: 2178
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

Idiots (in reply to mezzo)

"Only an idiot would say flamenco is only cante"

Gracias. I realise that I am one of this happy band. Fortunately I know a lot more, not just cantaores, but highly regarded tocaores such as Antonio Carrión, Fernando Moreno, El Niño Jero, Joselito de Pura......I could go on.

However I doubt than any of them would lose sleep over the opion of a buffoon on an English-speaking internet forum which is read by very few flamencos

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2014 15:15:38

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Idiots (in reply to Morante)

OK so there's no guitar, no palmas or dancing that can be called flamenco or essential part of it. Sorry then! I don't claim to know much about flamenco anyway.
Just like everything I say they aren't facts but opinions

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2014 15:30:21

koenie17

Posts: 438
Joined: Feb. 25 2011
From: España

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

Flamenco es cante! todo lo demás son tonterías...

This is what one of the older guys in my peña told me. Doesn´t mean that the guitar or dancing(or palmas) are less important, just that the base of flamenco is cante! The guitar and dance are to acompany the singer(acompañar al cante).
For me personally cante is definately the most important in flamenco. The guitar is to serve el cantaor and make him feel at ease singing by playing the right chords in a tastefull way at the right time.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2014 15:49:27

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to koenie17)

Cante being a base does not make everything else not flamenco, but whatever, I'm poor in these type of discussions as I don't know much about these things nor do I have interest in arguing

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2014 16:05:47

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

It looks like those posts were more pointed at mezzo then you...........

I have accepted that the flamenco pyramid has cante at the top and I understand why. In my pre-flamenco musical life singing was always the last thing I cared about when listening to music. I can listen to a great band with some pretty awful singers(there is a line though). I listen to Annihilator for god sake lol. So for me I appreciate the music more then the singing. Flamenco is what it is though and my opinion nor any one persons opinion has any bearing on what flamenco is. But when I'm personally watching a flamenco show, in Spain or otherwise, the guitarist can make or break my experience, for the singers and dancers as long as they're "good enough" I'm fine. A great singer definitely helps though.

Again, my opinion means nothing, I just like expressing it por soy humano.

Not directed at anyone btw............

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2014 17:03:45

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

In my opinion always in flamenco there are more bad singers than good singers, maybe because it's so difficult and sort of complicated compared(to the singers) to other kinds of music. Or maybe because the beauty is in the words of the singers which I don't understand alot, maybe 30 percent.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2014 20:45:19

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

It looks like those posts were more pointed at mezzo then you...........

puede ser, hombre puede ser...
but I didn't dismiss anybody on this topic. Just react to some flamencopolice alike sentences, I should have shut up once more

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2014 21:03:59

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to mezzo)

(1)Thou shall not use the word Cante in vein!
Don't you know your flamenco commandments??? LOL

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2014 21:16:07

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

what are the 9 other?
maybe it could be helpfull

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2014 21:22:47

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to mezzo)

LOL How about this:

1. Thou shall not use the word Cante in vein.
2. Thou shall not break compas.
3. Listen before you contribute
4. Thou shall not worship false idols (fakemenco)
5. Thou shall honor your Cantaor y Bailaor
6. Thou shall not jaleo without reason
7. San Agujetas owns you
8. So does San Paco
9. Drink Sherry
10. Smoke cigerettes

As with the normal 10 commandments none are more or less important!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2014 21:49:57

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to Leñador)

great. Sounds good to me, even if I'm no smoker.

to answer your question I like B key in tangos and bulerias.
The only couple of falsetas I ever composed were in that B tonos por tangos...

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2014 21:58:05

mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011

RE: I have a preference for por arriba. (in reply to tele)

Its too difficult...everything is difficult to do well in flamenco including the singing. A lot of singers oversing to compensate for not having the range or inflection or whatever.

In the old Ritmo y Geografia videos they would have arguments about whether payos could even do it at all, but to be honest a lot of the gipsies hd a hard time doing it well also

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2014 9:57:43