Fender Strat

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Fender Strat

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Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

Fender Strat

I have been experimenting with the banjo and after many fairly fruitless hours, I asked myself why not just go back to what I already know? I started on the electric guitar when I was 13 years old and I never 'learnt' the thing nor remember practising that much. Just joined a band and it kind of grew on me organically. A bit like flamenco kids, I guess.

Anyway, I gave my 1970 SG to my nephew a while ago and have always hankered after a Strat, so I have been looking on eBay for ages (which sucks for buying guitars untried). Eventually, I looked in my local online classifieds and found a great Mexican Standard. A 2011 model that had not been setup or played much at all. The guy had overtightened the strings so the tremelo/bridge was floating too high and he only wound a couple of turns on the posts, cutting off the excess so it didn't hold its tuning. I knew what the problem was, so I knocked £50 off the asking price and picked it up for £200. It's hardly been used and after a few hours of basic setting up, adjusting the three tremelo springs, innotation on the saddles, pickup height etc. and new strings, I love it. So easy to play. Set of five vintage tremelo springs on their way. Maybe install some Fender Custom Shop '69 or Seymour Duncan pickups and a steel bridge block to give it more character.

Before flamenco I didn't like the slightly wider fretboard of the Strat but now it is just fine. Otherwise, I can't be sure if flamenco has made that much of a difference to my playing but I am using my pinky a lot now and thinking more about melody than I did before in my noodlings.

Now thinking about assembling my own mega-Strat from a baseline of a decent CNC-routed body blank and finished vintage style neck. Probably go for a tru-oil or light nitro finish for tone and sustain. It's not so much lutherie as bolting on parts and adjustments and there are so many options to choose from.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2013 19:30:41

tri7/5

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Escribano)

Mexican strats can be great players and outplay many of the american made models once you change the pups. The lesser known japanese models are awesome as well. The neck pickup on a strat is still one of my favorite tones in all of guitar, nice score.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2013 20:14:18

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to tri7/5)

Nothing beats a strat sound when it comes to electric guitars. here is a stratocaster made by me. It was alot of work especially with the pickup covers. its a shame I dont play it enough as Im working relatively hard to learn flamenco and sold my amp which was sweet but loud as hell(budda superdrive 45). I like to play steelstring acoustic also when wanting a break from flamenco and play with a pick for a change.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2013 20:24:31

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to tele)

That is some piece of work! Gimme the parts breakdown. Did you wire the tone pot to all the pups?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2013 20:42:39

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Escribano)

Congrats, Simon. You have to love a Strat. I've put together a few myself from 80's era parts and you're right about all of the wiring options. I have a nice Strat copy with a Floyd Rose bridge/locking nut system. If you want noise cancelling pups with a vintage Strat sound the best I've tried are made by Kinman. The DiMarzio Tone Zone is a nice bridge pup for rock and metal. Since you live in England you should consider pups by Bare Knuckles (for humbuckers) or the Creamery for a great price on custom wound pups. Remember a lot of companies offer their humbuckers in a single coil format so no additional routing is necessary.

Here's the site I use for info on general wiring diagrams. There are a lot of options here: http://www.guitarelectronics.com/category/wiring_resources_guitar_wiring_diagrams/

Kinman
http://www.kinman.com/index.php

Duncan has a lot of info on wiring options on their site, too.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/

Bare Knuckles pups are around $200 USD in the USA, but quite a bit cheaper where you live.
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/

The Creamery
http://www.creamery-pickups.co.uk/

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2013 21:12:57

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Escribano)

Hi Simon,

Provided amateur level on strats be welcomned, I want to mention my axe which is only a Yamaha (RGX312), but plays very nicely, vibrates from top to toe and is pretty versatile with its pickup system.
I wasn´t expecting much when I stumbled over it, but it surprised me a lot. Already unplugged it just grooves away.
Other electrics I had in hand so far ( which admittedly wasn´t too many, but some of them very expensive ) felt comparably bulky and none had such strong vibe to it.
This little black and plain instrument has amazing value for the money.
-

This afternoon someone came by to tell me of his just acquired Vox amp with all the emulation features and reminded me of how long its been since I dialed in a crunchy sound anywhere to hack some kind of Indian rain dance. Don´t even know where my ol´ POD FX is burried.

Sometime years ago, I researched on what to possibly collect a finer strat of and marked parts like these:

It did not realize however, as nylon won me back before.
Guess if a strat of finer parts had given advantages over the Yamaha cinderella ( without me distinctively anticipating the benefits in advance / merely and vaguely deeming an overall lift evident with A/Bing the two instruments ), currently it would still be seeing as little use as the RGX. Probably a shame of waste / only good to have not been invested.

Similar to dust collecting steelers and the banjo. Poor little gems left idle since years now. ( While appreciating them still; just wishing there was time to practise them all.)
-

Back to Fender strats which are highly appreciated from what I read, with great ones among the Mexican production ( after not so great output until nineties or so?) and not even as heavy weighing as I used to think. ( After me ranting about a very heavy vintage Fender, recording mates informed me that actually there have always been light ones around as well.)

Just bubbling away, hopefully not spoiling thread with cluelessness about electrics.

Ruphus

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2013 21:51:32

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

That is some piece of work! Gimme the parts breakdown. Did you wire the tone pot to all the pups?

Parts breakdown in limited manner:

voodoo 69 pickups by david allen (great and good price)
maple top off ebay (the knobs and pupcovers are the same wood)
alder body from finland dealer
flame maple/rosewood neck from sourcenation(ebay seller, sell best necks with best prices in my opinion)
sperzel locking tuners

1 MONTH OF APPLYING TRU OIL EVERY DAY(WILL NEVER DO IT AGAIN). At the time I did not know about shellac. now I would just have used shellac as I don't have lacquer gun.

Tone pot is naturally wired to all pickups

Great guitar but it's just sitting now like a piece of furniture. Can't wait till I get a proper tube amp and get some jams with friends together.
Playing electric guitar with a good overdriven is the only way of playing guitar to me that satisfies me like playing flamenco guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2013 23:31:53

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

Thanks for this info. I'll check them out but the English pups seem a tad expensive and mostly overwound for my liking. I can't say I am in the market for custom handwound pups at the moment but you never know

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2013 8:22:22

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Escribano)

I must say I am pleased with DiMarzio. I bought a Gibson USA Melody Maker a couple of years ago when they cost 300 euros.

They only serve as a neck and body. Changed the tuners, sanded 2mm off the neck until I liked the profile, bought pickguard material, then routed out the body for two pickups.

A friend in a car body shop painted it metallic blue, then I reassembled it with a DiMarzio Twang King (Fender Tele copy) and a DiMarzio ActivatorX humbucker in the bridge and a 3 way switch.

Result: a cheap, lightweight guitar equal to any Fender or Gibson. An opinion shared by a top class rock guitarrist.

Thinking of buying a Squier thinline tele and a wide neck from Warmoth

Pickups after assembly.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2013 14:54:48

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Escribano)

Eventhough in terms of collector & luxury market the most expensive e-guitars tower way above prices of most exquisite nylon guitars, on the other hand it seems so much more easier and less expensive to manage for a really nice playing and sounding stratocaster.
Here it seems CNC can really excell.

As you say, Morante, in the cheap shelves there can be found pretty well resonating and very nicely shaped bodies, which may only require you to swap the e-parts, if at all. ( In my case the pickups seem to deliver all the juice I can think of. But I am not the most discerning in this field either. - Though knowing still how a heavy-duty rock guitar sounds.)

For some reason ( enclosed) steel string tuners tend to inherently come along very smooth and precise already ( while in the crucial nylon realm provenly picky enough, I am satisfied with all of my steelers mechanics, including even one very cheap set).

Guess, I only want to emphasize how I sympathize with my little axe ( and some other inexpensive strats tested in stores) for being such lovely instrument on a small budget.
... They could have been built by Robin Hood.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2013 16:53:56

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

I changed my mind when I found a sound sample of the Bare Knuckle 'Mother's Milk' pup, so I have ordered a bridge version to try. I am going to mix them up a bit. Their 'Irish Tour' pup might be really good at the bridge or middle position.

'Mother's Milk' sample got that 60s semi-clean Hendrix thing going on.

'Irish Tour' sample with a Rory Gallagher 70s vibe.

Thanks for the find. They are a little expensive but not too bad for custom, handwound pups compared to Fender Custom or Seymour Duncans.

And... they are English! In fact, they are made not too far from me in the South West.

I have also ordered a Wilkinson Vintage tremelo with push-in arm and solid steel block (for better tremelo, tuning and tone) plus some orange drop .022μF capacitors (for that hollow tone). All these things add up to bringing the Mexican Strat to a much better spec.

I'll record a before and after modification, for reference.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2013 17:25:21

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Morante)

Yep, it's a pick and mix, cheap and fun. Try this guy, I called him and he is very helpful.

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/agccustomsltd

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2013 17:30:00

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to tele)

quote:

Can't wait till I get a proper tube amp

I was really dumb to sell my old AC30 all those years ago :-(

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2013 17:32:03

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

I changed my mind when I found a sound sample of the Bare Knuckle 'Mother's Milk' pup…

Lol…

I bought at least 30 pups in the last three years and there is usually a world of difference between typical name brand offerings and more expensive pups by BK and Kinman, etc.

quote:

And... they are English! In fact, they are made not too far from me in the South West.

Ask if they have a storefront and gear you can try out. Could be a great learning experience.

quote:

I have also ordered a Wilkinson Vintage tremelo with push-in arm and solid steel block (for better tremelo, tuning and tone)

Good call. I was going to mention a trem upgrade. Brass sustain blocks give a warmer sound and add bass if you need it. Locking tuners might be another worthwhile addition.

If you are interested in another inexpensive upgrade try a compensated nut. Guitars have intonation issues near the nut due to the added tension at the end of the strings. Chords and intervals in the open position have notes that are sharp relative to the open strings and the rest of the fret board. You can read about this on the Earvana website--I think BK had these in stock a few years back.

Earvana:
http://www.earvana.com/fender_Shelf.htm

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2013 19:27:46

Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Escribano)

I traded a 64 strat for a brand new mesa boogie mark2 back in the early 80's. The amp was amazing and I gigged with it a ton, but a roadie dropped it down a flight of stairs and it was never the same.

Of course I regret the trade, but at the time it was fair. I still have my '75 strat, which played and sounded better than the '64 and I thought of buying a new amp even though I haven't played electric on a gig in many years. Instead I brought my old boogie back to the factory in Petaluma, CA. For a really small amount, they restored it and it sounds the same as when new. They were pretty stoked to see it when I brought it in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

quote:

Can't wait till I get a proper tube amp

I was really dumb to sell my old AC30 all those years ago :-(

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2013 21:10:53

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

Locking tuners might be another worthwhile addition.

I got the Wilkinson trem to install at the weekend and will see how it goes but right now the open string intonation sucks and it really doesn't hold its tune, so I think you're right - locking Schallers are in order.

Got the Bare Knuckle neck pup and can't wait to wire it up with the orange drop cap this weekend.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 7 2013 16:28:15

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

I got the Wilkinson trem to install at the weekend and will see how it goes but right now the open string intonation sucks and it really doesn't hold its tune, so I think you're right - locking Schallers are in order.

I've seen some interesting vids on ways people keep their traditional Strats in tune. Some include winding the strings from bottom to top to reduce break angle behind the nut, a drop of 3-In-1 oil on the nut slots, graphite nuts and saddles and unusual spring settings in the trem cavity, etc.

You might have to stretch the strings a bit before they will stay in tune. For the most part this helps seat the strings on the tuning peg. Also, it’s best not to overlap windings since the strings will take longer to become properly seated on the peg…

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 7 2013 18:09:30

tri7/5

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Escribano)

A wilkinson should hold just fine with normal tuners if the strings are tied correctly and not slipping at the tuner end. This as long as you aren't dive bombing the trem constantly and trying to make it out to be a floyd rose. You might want to also check that the strings aren't binding at the nut as well and returning to correct tension after trem use.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 7 2013 19:44:11

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to tri7/5)

I installed the bare knuckle pup and orange drop capacitor have ordered the rest of the set. Very impressed with the sound. The Wilkinson bridge is holding the tuning very well but I think there is room for locking tuners as I do use the tremelo quite a bit.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 13:14:25

Morante

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Joined: Nov. 21 2010

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 13:25:34

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Escribano)

I did a quick recording of a noodle with the Bare Knuckle pup installed at the neck. It's low volume I am afraid, and as clean as the amp will go with a little phaser and reverb.

Still getting used to the Fender neck and string spacing after flamenco and Gibson electric guitars but I hope you agree that the pup has some character.... because it wasn't cheap

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 14:23:28

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

I hope you agree that the pup has some character.... because it wasn't cheap

I like the way it sounds. Is it more quiet than the stock pup?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 15:21:22

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

It is not hot wound, so no louder (about the same, or a wee bit quieter), but fuller, cleaner and more resonant, I would say.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 16:10:41

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Escribano)

Bareknuckles are great, they seem to be more consistent then other boutique pup companies.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 17:45:10

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Fender Strat (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

It is not hot wound, so no louder (about the same, or a wee bit quieter), but fuller, cleaner and more resonant, I would say.

One thing I've noticed about my Kinman Avn's (compared to a DiMarzio bridge humbucker) is that they are dead quiet even with cords, the amp and a speaker cabinet next to a 34 inch CRT TV. After you've used quality gear like your BK pup it is very difficult to go back...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2013 18:58:47