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britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

How long before face changes colour? 
I have a few older guitars and a few newer ones. Most of them have spruce faces, but the colour is not always the same. The older guitars have much nicer coloured faces, more mature somehow. Slightly darker and deeper than the newer guitars. Although I suspect that originally the colours were probably very similar?

What factors influence the colour change on guitars? Is it purely age, or do different woods age differently. Do French-polished guitars deepen in colour differently from lacquered ones?

My three newer instruments are all under three years old. They all have French-polished, light, 'natural' colour faces. I was wondering how long it may take before the colour starts to deepen, and become more like the older instruments?

Or maybe they might not?

Any thoughts???

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 30 2013 19:30:15
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to britguy) 
Oxidation of the wood causes change in color. Most woods darken with age; walnut is the only one I know of that lightens with age. Light may be involved in the oxidation process, or one of the oxidation processes.

I have worked in cabinet shops where a stack of parts for a cabinet had to be arranged carefully so that a part on top that didn't completely cover the part underneath would not leave a silhouette on the bottom one by blocking the light.

Many things can act as antioxidants (as we know from "health foods" these days) and some finishes have UV light absorbers, so these properties of finishes probably influence the darkening rate.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 30 2013 22:28:11
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to britguy) 
How long before face changes colour ?


Well with your complection I'd keep the hat.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 30 2013 22:36:07
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to guitarbuddha) 
Sorry, I just love stupid jokes.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 30 2013 22:43:05
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to britguy) 
They change color right away, but you can't tell unless you mask part of it a then remove the mask two weeks later.

Ultraviolet spectrum hits the wood and oxidizes it. It's basically like giving wood a suntan. Leave your guitars out in the room for a few months and they will get darker. Put a guitar in a closet with a UV lamp for a week and it will look like it got 40 years of age in oxidation.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 0:22:13
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to guitarbuddha) 
quote:

Well with your complection I'd keep the hat.


"Sorry, I just love stupid jokes. "

That's O.K. sweetie; I enjoy dumb jokes also. But it was a serious question.

And you're right; my pasty Limey complEXION does require wearing a hat when out in the open; which I do all the time. I've already had my problems with skin cancer. . .

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 0:49:57
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to estebanana) 
quote:

Put a guitar in a closet with a UV lamp for a week and it will look like it got 40 years of age in oxidation.


Very interesting. . .

Might there be any negative effects on the instrument if one tries this procedure?

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 0:58:32

C. Vega

 

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004
 

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: britguy

Might there be any negative effects on the instrument if one tries this procedure?



It's standard procedure for many violin makers.
It's frequently used to darken the raw wood before varnishing and also during the varnishing process because the UV light accelerates the drying speed of some varnishes.
Do a Google search for "UV cabinet for violin making" or something similar. There's lots of info out there on making a simple cabinet, the best tubes to use, etc.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 2:24:01
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: britguy

That's O.K. sweetie;



So I'm sweet am I ?

Well if the hat fits......

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 2:47:08
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

Might there be any negative effects on the instrument if one tries this procedure?


Yes, you have to be very careful, you could over heat a guitar and crack it or warp it. Personally I would let time to it's work and be happy with what you got.

Leaving a guitar out in the open on a stand for six months in the living room, not direct sunlight, will do a hell of a lot to change it's color. Unless the guitar is orange.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 3:20:18
 
akatune

 

Posts: 188
Joined: Mar. 28 2008
 

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to estebanana) 
Uh oh.
Should We keep it in the case?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 4:00:43
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to britguy) 
Just put it in the open in your room and with a year it is much darker.

One note.....UV. Type A will color the guitar and goes trough glass.
So if you get the urge to put it in direct sunlight in your beautiful orchard, it is not nessesary and dangerous for the guitar.


Here a picture from my two Anders Eliasson.
One new and one in the open (not in direct sunlight) just in the room for 4 years.......



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 9:05:44
 
el carbonero

 

Posts: 295
Joined: Jun. 23 2007
 

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to britguy) 
an orange conde never change
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 10:13:52
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to estebanana) 
quote:

Personally I would let time to it's work and be happy with what you got.


Actually, I'm quite happy with what I've got. Have no intention of risking a good stable instrument by trying to play around with the colour of the face.

Just asking out of curiosity. One reason being that I have another (custom) guitar that's about eight years old and the face is still very pale. This one is lacquered, not French Polished. I was wondering if this made any difference?

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 13:06:33
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to akatune) 
quote:

Uh oh.
Should We keep it in the case?


Keep it out of the case if you like, where you live it should be fine. But do what Gerundino says, keep it out of direct sunlight.

With the top on your guitar is will get a beautiful gold brown a few years. It will only get better looking as time goes by.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 13:29:30
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

Just asking out of curiosity. One reason being that I have another (custom) guitar that's about eight years old and the face is still very pale. This one is lacquered, not French Polished. I was wondering if this made any difference?


Well if you ever make it to Madrid go to the Emperador Hotel and ask for the Jernigan Suite. Put the guitar in the special UV sauna bath in the Jernigan Suite known as "La Salon de Oxidacion."

Tell them C . Vega sent you for an extra discount and a free drink ticket in the bar.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 13:35:16
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to el carbonero) 
quote:

an orange conde never change


Ever heard of punctuation?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 13:46:06
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to estebanana) 
quote:

Well if you ever make it to Madrid go to the Emperador Hotel and ask for the Jernigan Suite. Put the guitar in the special UV sauna bath in the Jernigan Suite known as "La Salon de Oxidacion."

Tell them C . Vega sent you for an extra discount and a free drink ticket in the bar


Really! I had my very first flamenco lessons in Madrid in the late '50's. But I'd never aspire to anything like the "Emperador" ( you kidding?) Hotel, or the celebrated Jernigan Suite. ( My level was a cheap 3rd. floor walk-up pensione on Calle de Atocha - food not bad, waitress very cute, wine was $%^*ing awful!)

But . . . . to get an extra discount AND a free drink, courtesy of C.Vega, WOW. Maybe it's worth another trip? Hasta luego. . . . .

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 17:01:23
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to estebanana) 
quote:

Well if you ever make it to Madrid go to the Emperador Hotel and ask for the Jernigan Suite. Put the guitar in the special UV sauna bath in the Jernigan Suite known as "La Salon de Oxidacion."

Tell them C . Vega sent you for an extra discount and a free drink ticket in the bar.


You forgot to mention one of the prime benefits of staying in the Jernigan Suite, Stephen. Aside from having your own personal valet, you also get a free genealogical run-up to determine if your family lineage goes back to Charles Martel and Charlemagne.

Cheers,

Bill

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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 19:12:06
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to BarkellWH) 
quote:

You forgot to mention one of the prime benefits of staying in the Jernigan Suite, Stephen.


Don't take him TOO seriously, Bill. He's just enjoying his favourite pastime of "faulking" around. . .

(Strictly no pun intended !).

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 20:20:39
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

(Strictly no pun intended !).


On the contrary, Britguy, that was very punny.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 20:26:58
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to gerundino63) 
quote:

Here a picture from my two Anders Eliasson.
One new and one in the open (not in direct sunlight) just in the room for 4 years.......


That's a very interesting picture. I really like the darker colour.

You can really see the difference four years of natural age and U/V exposure has made to the colour of the face.

Thanks. . .

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2013 20:32:23
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

Might there be any negative effects on the instrument if one tries this procedure?


Indeed: It might dry out, crack, and catch fire. I did something similar once (trying to reduce the doming of a guitar's soundboard by placing a small lamp inside for 10 minutes while weighting the bridge).

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 2 2013 2:25:27
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

I did something similar once (trying to reduce the doming of a guitar's soundboard by placing a small lamp inside for 10 minutes while weighting the bridge).


Yeah you can't get distracted when you do that....DAMHIK ( don't ask me how I know) LOL

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 2 2013 12:25:53
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14819
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to el carbonero) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: el carbonero

an orange conde never change





At least not since the late 1700's.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 2 2013 13:37:49
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to estebanana) 
Ah, well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who learns the hard way.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 2 2013 22:47:27
 
gbv1158

 

Posts: 410
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to el carbonero) 
quote:

an orange conde never change


....too many "orange-s" on wood! :-)

ciao
giambattista
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 3 2013 12:12:34
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

How long before face changes colour?


Actually you probably shouldn't be holding your breath.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 3 2013 12:53:45
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: How long before face changes colour? (in reply to britguy) 
I just got an email from Stew-Mac with a link to this video. Maybe you all did, too, but I think it is relevant to this discussion.



_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 24 2013 22:04:12
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