strange discovery

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strange discovery

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Kevin James Shanahan

Posts: 407
Joined: Oct. 10 2010
From: Wooli, NSW Australia

strange discovery

I was having a stretch and I reached one arm over my head the other behind my back so my fingers touched . I went to do the same thing, changing arms and I couldn't get anywhere near my fingers touching behind my back . On observation it appears the problem is in my right shoulder muscles ( frantickly trying to stretch and relieve the tightness now ) . I wanted to ask the foro if they could try this for themselves ,I feel it might be a guitar related problem . Thanks .

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Peace.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 1:36:34

Gummy

Posts: 495
Joined: Nov. 27 2005
From: North Carolina, USA

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

Yeah, there must be something wrong with that left shoulder. I can't come within a foot on either side.

I can't imagine being that limber.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 2:37:20

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

A friend of mine calles this "les paul shoulder"
He's got the samme thing and it seems to be from playing guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 2:55:33

shaun

Posts: 176
Joined: May 11 2012
From: Edmonton, Canada

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

It's not unusual to be more flexible on one side than the other. If you're right handed there's a good chance your right shoulder will be tighter. Guitar might be a factor but there are a lot of other things too. I do these stretches just about every day so it's not much different on either side.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 3:08:32

Kevin James Shanahan

Posts: 407
Joined: Oct. 10 2010
From: Wooli, NSW Australia

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

les Paul shoulder , what a crack up lol . Thanks Shaun , I can do one of those stretches , will be working on the other .

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Peace.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 3:26:16

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

Shaun,

Actually your situation is uncommon, because of your training.

It is normal that left arm from above ( like in your first picture ) won´t work, while the other side will.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 8:58:06

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

You can use a dishcloth to connect the two hands. Increase you range of movement by moving your hands along the diagonal axis. Then shorten the length of towel between the hands. I'd be surprised if it took more than ten minutes to get to the point where the hands are touching.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 9:48:48

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

just heard about this from physical therapist friend that casually observed guitar player positions. Setting up picado for example is bad for rotator cuff and long term might cause this problem. Right shoulder only.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 14:55:53

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

Hey Kevin, I have the same problem as you. My right shoulder is a bit f*cked up too, but it has nothing to do with guitar. I noticed this when I was 15 or so and I only started playing guitar after I made 19. I have absolutely no clue how my shoulder got like this and I am certain I could move it normally when I was a child.

This is me stretching the maximum I can. On the fotos on the right side, I was having pain on my right shoulder. On the fotos on the left, everything was alright.

This might seem weird, but the damn shoulder doesn't move/rotate more than that, even if someone tries to force it. Again, at this point, my right shoulder is already hurting a lot.

I've gone to the doctor and a chiropractor to see this but they say everything is alright. For me it clearly is not. I have some pain from time to time and it snaps/cracks all the time when I move it, but it's not that big of a problem.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 16:15:45

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

I'd be surprised if it took more than ten minutes to get to the point where the hands are touching.

D.

Don´t be surprised.
Sometimes the unexpected is just the simple where it´s at.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 16:42:12

Kevin James Shanahan

Posts: 407
Joined: Oct. 10 2010
From: Wooli, NSW Australia

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

Thank you so much for posting Fred . Your pictures show my exact problem . I am determined to get full function out of my shoulder . I will let you know how I go . I am just so surprised to discover this now . Thanks again .

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Peace.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 20:43:59

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

I'd be surprised if it took more than ten minutes to get to the point where the hands are touching.

D.

Don´t be surprised.

Sometimes the unexpected is just the simple where it´s at.

Ruphus

I meant no disrespect. I think the procedure I outlined is the standard physiotherapy to help mobilise the area.

I do not know if this is the case in every incidence but usually there is a line of fibrous muscle and shortened tendon in the area. Go for a run or at least a brusque walk and play about with the towel.

It is like touching your toes. As we get older we develop muscular imbalances and they can restrict our range of motion. Regular gentle stretching can help lengthen the muscle and make us more away of how we are misusing the affected area.

When you reach without the towel the affection tense muscle region stiffens to protect itself and all the strain goes to the tendon. The towel gives you a little more length to play with. Some breathing room within which to relax and learn, rather than hitting the brick wall of the somewhat arbitrary goal of locking your hands.

The clicking is probably caused by something called tenosynovitis. This is a malfunction of the lubricating sheath of the tendon and it is either an air bubble popping or a slight build up of collagen (which can make the tendon adhere to a spot where the synovial fluid is not flowing) being displaced.

The root cause is probable an asymmetrical tensing of the sternocleomastoid muscles of the neck which is accompanied by a slight compression of the whole spine biased on one side.

Try the towel thing GENTLY and when warm. Ten minutes may not do it but a little every day should help to get more mobility.

Like touching your toes a little every day is best, no point being upset or worried if it doesn't happen instantly.

Certainly it is also a good idea to practice in front of a mirror. Watching in particular your neck. Things nearly always start at the neck even though symptoms turn up in other locations.

Whatever you spend a lot of time doing will add to the stress in a particular area of the body but focusing on just individual parts can move the pain around in a way which is confusing. Especially since the inflammation which is causing pain will take time to drain away. So you might be doing things really much better and your body is still giving you confusing signals. So you change and do something weird which strains a differnet part of the body with a suddenly increased training load.

Try the towel thing, try and let it be fun. Even better join a good gentle old school yoga class with someone old and experienced and patient.

Best wishes.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 23:21:07

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

In WT we were told why nromally the one side is more felxible than the other, but I forgot the cause.

If you ask people to try you will see, everyone can do right arm up, but not the the other side.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2013 23:47:28

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

In WT we were told why nromally the one side is more felxible than the other, but I forgot the cause.

If you ask people to try you will see, everyone can do right arm up, but not the the other side.

Ruphus

I think it is to do with handedness. When people fall of of a bicycle they generally fall to the left. This is because the extensors on the stronger right side overpower the extensors on the left and 'push' the centre of gravity to the left.

The stronger side can cause a general shortening of the musculature of the weaker side and this means that lengthening can be more difficult to achieve.

Any stress exacerbates the situation, such as habitually adobting a less than ideal posture when engaging in a task for long periods.

D

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 29 2013 0:05:36

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kevin James Shanahan

Thank you so much for posting Fred . Your pictures show my exact problem . I am determined to get full function out of my shoulder . I will let you know how I go . I am just so surprised to discover this now . Thanks again .

I'm glad that was useful. Good luck with your shoulder Kevin.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 29 2013 0:08:26

Kevin James Shanahan

Posts: 407
Joined: Oct. 10 2010
From: Wooli, NSW Australia

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

Thanks GB I like the towel exercise and will train gently , I think it is going to take some time though , I am glad to discover the problem , it must have an effect on other areas of my body . As for yoga all I know is a salute to the sun routine , I will look for some good shoulder stretches ( the towel is good ) .

Yes Ruphus I asked my boss today ( a young healthy Builder ) and he had a similar difference in ability from one side to the other . Non guitar player .

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Peace.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 29 2013 1:16:26

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

Funny how something is so common that one could tell folks of it in advance, innit.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 29 2013 5:09:03

machopicasso

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: strange discovery (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

just heard about this from physical therapist friend that casually observed guitar player positions. Setting up picado for example is bad for rotator cuff and long term might cause this problem

There are exercises one can do to strengthen the area around the rotator cuff so as to avoid injury. This is pretty common among (smart) weight lifters. FYI.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2013 10:31:20