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ORIGINAL: gj Michelob

You are absolutely correct, Arash, California -SF and LA particurly- enjoy a more sophisticated and openminded music scene than many other places in the US or Europe. In Santa Barbara, the hotel had a flamenco guitar players' gig every day and each always received a warm applause from the eager audience.

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No, he called it "Nouveau Flamenco". Because it's French.

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ORIGINAL: FredGuitarraOle


In my opinion, the nuevo Flamenco is what guys like Diego del Morao are doing.

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How come professional Flamenco Guitarist really don't have the same problems with audience per say the way some of us who play occasionally out and have day jobs?

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Ah, yes. That makes all the difference in the world. Actually I believe he's German so
neue Flamenco might have been in order. On second thought that lacks the cachet of French.

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ORIGINAL: Arash

Sure they are better and get better gigs, no question about that, but one advantage is also the location. There is a vivid flamenco scene there where those guys live, whereas in some places (like where i live or maybe you and others live), its not that good.

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ORIGINAL: flyhere

Obviously, good presentation skills and confidence would also need to go with some real talents. I watched a pianist once, he had his piano slowly rising up on stage with flashing strobe lights and smoke-machine effects, but being a flashy showman and the use of special effects couldn't compensate for being a crappy musician.

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ORIGINAL: flyhere

Obviously, good presentation skills and confidence would also need to go with some real talents. I watched a pianist once, he had his piano slowly rising up on stage with flashing strobe lights and smoke-machine effects, but being a flashy showman and the use of special effects couldn't compensate for being a crappy musician.

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ORIGINAL: Ricardo

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ORIGINAL: Arash

Sure they are better and get better gigs, no question about that, but one advantage is also the location. There is a vivid flamenco scene there where those guys live, whereas in some places (like where i live or maybe you and others live), its not that good.

Honestly I will say it is more about presentation than the audience per se. The entire world is full of people that can be grabbed by a powerful flamenco performance. A guy shyly sitting in the corner of some room or restaurant playing too quiet with people talking over is probably NOT going to grab and affect the people, even if it is a barefooted PDL. But give him some amplification and put him in your face and people have to take notice. Once you have the right presentation it is up to the player to actually deliver something. I always play as if there are some high level musicians in the crowd, even if it is just rumba. There has to be some energy and power if you want to affect people. Sometimes there is NOBODY receptive in the audience and yes it does seem like a waste, but you can't let it get you down.

Finally, I feel there is a stage in aficionados learning of flamenco guitar where at first they are attracted to rumba, next they freaking hate it and wish it and all people that like it or do it would spontaneously combust....then as one advances to a point of playing a lot you realize there actually IS a time and place for it and if it is done well and with taste it will be respected by even top flamencos and hardcore aficionados. It is what it is no more no less and does not really harm deeper flamenco in anyway IMO. Rumberos that put some effort heart and time into it really can deliver some nice artist music with power, even if those middle stage flamenco students want to boycott it, it still has merit.

Ricardo

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So the answer to the thread problem is ... Move to California, Dude!!!

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Esteban Benise Ottmar get this stigma amongst musicians for the same reason....over presenting what they offer musically. It is a failure IMO, and then you have PDL for example with his group that many don't like, yet he retains his place artistically and succeeds as he can still play with taste and musicality and everybody knows it, regardless if they like his presentation or not. Caracol is another example with flamenco singing. He indulged in some cheese but it does not take away from the fact all aficionados recognize his greatness.

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So the answer to the thread problem is ... Move to California, Dude!!!

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ORIGINAL: Kalo


I hope Karma and the Guitar Gods, won't bite me in the ass for what I am about to say...

Esteban, SUCKS, BIG TIME!!!!

He used to work at the Hyatt Gainey Ranch and EVERYTHING is a gimic...

His son glasses and hat were all thought up by the manager.

My teacher (rock) new all the band and recorded some of his stuff...OMG, the guy couldn't even keep correct time...

During a session, his drummer, said, "Esteban, you have to start on the "4" and he replied, "hey, don't tell me what to do, I am the star and I pay you to make me sound good"

I remember I went to see him and he did play CHEESY, Elevator music and man did the crowd suck it up...

I wasn't aware he didn't know how to play flamenco guitar at the time! During his break, someone called him over to our table him over to talk to me as they new I loved guitar.

He acted like he was a Guitar God, and he said to me, "ya wanna talk to me" and I said sure, so you play flamenco and he said, yes, I played a lot of Juerga's in Spain. What would you like to hear"...

I replied, what would you like to play, and he said, well, I tell you what I will play something off my CD, a song called "Fernando".

I almost choked on my beer and said, innocently, OMG, you mean the ABBA song, and he replied with a smile, YES...

I said, Esteban, that's not flamenco, I wanna hear some Buleria...

He was taken back and said, "why you know your flamenco" and I said not great, but, I know Fernando is no flamenco..

Kalo

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Arash, the comment you left on that video was priceless.

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ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

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Arash, the comment you left on that video was priceless.

Wow. No wonder California surfers are perceived as morons. My wife’s going to be really pissed off at that bloke…

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The route for the more serious is teaching and playing with dancers at Spanish tapas places, maybe cultural venues, stuff like that..thats the only route in North America that I can see for a professional flamenc player

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Interesting topic. My first teacher taught me and others how to do concerts for non aficianados in particular. He was extremely successful at it. I also had a lessor level of success at it. You have to provide the verbal explanations, and you need to be entertaining while doing it. You also have to select/arrange music that they have a chance to relate to, and include at least some music they might know.
A bulerias without a verbal intro will probably not work. My teacher told me the verbal was as important as the music. I was pretty happy doing this for a number of years. Made some pretty good money, played some very cool gigs.

But then I got serious about learning to play for dance. I studied more modern playing. I kinda let my solo chops slide. But I learned how to follow really syncopated dance steps, and many of the little tricks one needs to play for dance. Learned some really tricky falsetas and syncopated compas stuff. Became more interested in how to play for singing. At a certain point, I'd was playing stuff in a class that in some cases only the teacher could hear and apreciate. All good, I'd made a lot of progress toward what actual flamenco players were doing and knowing. I realized a dream by playing gigs with singers and dancers. But, I had reduced the size of potential admirers, fans, clients, gigs to almost none. I was playing for aficianados and dancers. Trouble is , there aren't that many of them.

Which brings up the question: Save for personal enjoyment, is there any point in playing flamenco guitar in a place where there is no cultural context? I mean, in my town, which is a fairly major US city, there is a pretty small community of people to play for. Even less opportunity to earn money. I couldn't go back to the "friendly flamenco" gig. I felt I had already taken that gig as far as I could and had no desire to resurrect Malaguena by Lecuona, etc. I spent some time doing background music gigs playing sig, bulerias, etc, but realized I was really not doing the best job for the audience. I don't play flamenco much anymore, just for personal enjoyment, which, since I don't play that much, doesn't give me much enjoyment. I've talked to other players in my area who have expressed that serious pursuit of flamenco is ultimately a dead end for people outside Spain. I tend to agree. Comments?