Question about Soleá speed

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FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

Question about Soleá speed

Alright guys, I'm having a bit of a dilemma with the Soleá for the challenge and I need some advice. The thing is, I have chosen a couple of pretty hard falsetas that I can play with some comfort at 90 bpm. Faster than that and I start sh*tting myself. On the other hand, I've also chosen a couple of easier falsetas than I can play comfortably at 110 bpm or a bit faster. And now you are saying: "Well, that's simple... Play the whole thing at 90 bpm you dummy!". That's what I wanted to do, the problem is that those easier falsetas sound pretty boring at 90 bpm. They are just not effective at that speed, they need to be played faster.

Is it ok to play the hard falsetas slower and the easy ones faster? If it is, what about the compás in between falsetas and when do I speed the whole thing up? I know this is common in a Soleá and that the compás is a bit elastic, but is it alright to make such a dramatic change of speed?

Oh, and please don't tell me to choose other falsetas because that's not a solution.

Thanks in advance.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 15:44:46

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

I think you may be making things hard for yourself .......

take your own advice ...'''Play the whole thing at 90 bpm you dummy!".

90 or 100 is about average for a solear .....just because things may seem easy to play doesnt mean they are...you still gotta play them right and good , with the flamenco sound ....

All tunes you learn by everyone from now till the future are gonna have easy bits and hard bits ....but that doesnt mean that you have to speed up on the easy bits ....

if everyone did that Paco de Lucias tunes would be over pretty quick

sometimes you can slow down on the easy bits a tad for dramatic effecf ,,,

I think if i was going to give advice i would say pick a tempo ( 90 or so ) and stick to it ...try to make it the best you can all the time ..
sound ..playing .. form ..etc ....thats what everyone will be listening for .......

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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 16:01:05

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

I was having the same problem but after some research I decided to "humanize" the thing in a smooth way, not like "here comes the hard part, lets slow down"

Another thing Iam considering doing is filling up the sparse bits (the ones that sound boring slow) with notes inbetween.

I havent finished composing it, cant play some parts yet and the middle fingernail is broken.

At least Ive already decided that my cartoon figure will be green, shoot spiderweb and have huge tits.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 16:15:46

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

quote:

I'm having a bit of a dilemma with the Soleá for the challenge and I need some advice. The thing is, I have chosen a couple of pretty hard falsetas that I can play with some comfort at 90 bpm.

Do a 'Slolea'... -S[L]O[W]LEA'... !!

_____________________________

gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 16:38:50

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

I'm thinking, get creative with the easier falsetas, either REAAAALLLY focus on the tone or add some decoration.

EDIT: Oh wait, it's flamenco, we don't care at all about tone.......I forgot........

_____________________________

\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 17:02:21

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

Good questions, no simple answers.

One option is to start with the slower material en end with the faster material. You could transit with a falseta or variation that invites (or enables) acceleration at the end of the last compas, for instance raising speed between 7>10 (or 10>12 fallowed by rasguedo at 110 bpm or other fitting material). But having a musical mind yourself i'm pretty sure you will run into other problems with that simple solution like the fact you might like to begin with one of the faster falsetas and/or want to finish with one of the slower variations...like you experienced yourself, it's a (lifetime) struggle.

You might be able to translate material from one speed to the other to a certain extend by altering the notes/rhythm/interpretation/vibrato. In your case the option might be to play the 110 bpm material at 90 bpm and to "pimp it up" with more expression (one way or the other). Playing a simple thing slowly but meaningful is one of the hardest things to do. I spend a lot of time listening to the masters at half speed and i was never ever bored by any of the well played notes popping up at those low speeds.

Sometimes your reluctancy to play something at lower speeds is purely psychological. We all tend to speed up things over the years and solea cante nowadays is performed at significantly higher speeds then lets say 20 years ago. Vicente speeded up parts of his material over the years as well. But it's totally true that sometimes material does indeed demand a certain speed (or way of playing) to come to live...in my case it is more often then not a lack of speed that is needed to tell my story...i guess i have a lot to tell :-).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 18:20:47

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 20:12:44

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

simple, play it all fast from the start. Minimize the things you need to play slow. If you MUST do those, it's ok to slow down from the start after a pause form the last section, so long as you are STRONG with expression and accents. Let it slow down suddenly for drama...that's what diego del gastor was so good at. If you do it convincingly. Now, it is important to end those sections with something you can do slow and speed up, like the good ol arpegios/legato licks that can build things back up to speed you want smooth and equally dramatic. It will end up being taste, your ear should tell you if you are convincing us it is controlled and deliberate. Diego didn't slow down hard spots, he would slow down what ever he wanted for drama. Perhaps follow that idea and make a nice rollercoaster out if it.

Now if the majority of your material is slow, then try the opposite. Suddenly erupt with your fast easy section to knock off everybodies socks then after stoping on a dime, come back in slow again.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 22:07:30

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

At least Ive already decided that my cartoon figure will be green, shoot spiderweb and have huge tits.

This one?

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 22:19:39

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to Ricardo)

like your input :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 22:29:03

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to Erik van Goch)

Thanks a lot guys!

The majority of the falsetas are a bit over my capabilities so I'll play it all slower, at a speed I'm moderately comfortable, and I'll try to keep an even compás as much as possible. I'll try to add the drama to some of the easier parts or add some extra notes, like you guys said. But if I get comfortable enough with it, I'll make some speed changes like Erik and Ricardo suggested.

quote:

One option is to start with the slower material en end with the faster material. You could transit with a falseta or variation that invites (or enables) acceleration at the end of the last compas, for instance raising speed between 7>10 (or 10>12 fallowed by rasguedo at 110 bpm or other fitting material).

Erik, I was thinking of doing that but I'll have to change the order of the last falsetas. My doubt was when and where to increase the speed, thanks for the explanation.

quote:

Now if the majority of your material is slow, then try the opposite. Suddenly erupt with your fast easy section to knock off everybodies socks then after stoping on a dime, come back in slow again.

Ricardo, I see what you mean. The problem is that, unlike Diego del Gastor, I'm terrible with expression and convincing people. But I'll make an experiment and try to record it like you said, maybe it will come out fine. I will use those arpeggio/ligado licks to change speed, that's a good solution.

I just finished learning the hardest falseta, I'm still mechanizing it. Tomorrow I'm going to be all the afternoon practising that falseta like you said Lionel, thanks for the tip.

The thing is, I injured my left hand recently and I was almost one and a half months without playing guitar. I started playing again about three weeks ago but I still haven't recovered the stability and precision of movements I had before the injury. I can play the hard parts but I mess it all up when I change from pulgar to picado, arpeggio to picado, from the end of a falseta to rasgueos of compás, etc. Also, my nails are all f*cked up so my sound is terrible. Since there are going to be some missed notes and a bit of an unclean sound, I wanted to at least give the Soleá a nice feel and flow. That's why I'm so concerned with the speed.

Anyway, thanks again very much for all the help.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 22:58:42

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

Sometimes we can just be too over critical of our own abilities....we see the floors and the detrimental outcome, in our own minds, can often kill a good idea and stop it from happening at all. Don't loose what you originally wanted to say with the piece in the first place by deciding that one has to suffer for the sake of the effectiveness of the other......Ricardo has put it really well , you can do it all and give the listener the drama,excitement the emotion and for you....well you wrote it, played it made it....awesome!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 23:07:08

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

quote:

This one?

WTF? Who's that??

Talking about damaged nails.... Ive noticed that my damaged nail is cracked and I dont want it to split anymore. Is there a way to close it?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 23:20:12

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

quote:

This one?

WTF? Who's that??

Talking about damaged nails.... Ive noticed that my damaged nail is cracked and I dont want it to split anymore. Is there a way to close it?

Do you have a staple gun?

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 23:33:53

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to pink)

quote:

Sometimes we can just be too over critical of our own abilities....we see the floors and the detrimental outcome, in our own minds, can often kill a good idea and stop it from happening at all. Don't loose what you originally wanted to say with the piece in the first place by deciding that one has to suffer for the sake of the effectiveness of the other......Ricardo has put it really well , you can do it all and give the listener the drama,excitement the emotion and for you....well you wrote it, played it made it....awesome!!

Thanks for the advice Pink. The Soleá I'm going to record for the challenge isn't actually my composition, it's a mix of falsetas from the masters. I'm just trying to put it all together and get a nice thing out of it. I will make it as close to my original idea as possible then.

quote:

WTF? Who's that??

Spider woman in a green costume:
http://halloweensuits.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/spider_woman__alternate.png

quote:

Talking about damaged nails.... Ive noticed that my damaged nail is cracked and I dont want it to split anymore. Is there a way to close it?

Superglue the b*tch!

quote:

Do you have a staple gun?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 23:45:16

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

Is it safe to use superglue? Iam not so sure if I want those spooky chemicals being absorbed by my body..

Staples seem safer but unpratical. Might scratch the strings.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2013 23:48:40

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to Sr. Martins)

You have never put superglue on your nails?! You are not a proper Flamenco guitarist until you do so!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2013 1:06:05

shaun

Posts: 176
Joined: May 11 2012
From: Edmonton, Canada

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

Duct tape

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2013 1:46:26

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

Iam not a flamenco guitarist until I play any flamenco. Solea challenge... yeah, right

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2013 11:24:40

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

Is it safe to use superglue? Iam not so sure if I want those spooky chemicals being absorbed by my body..

Staples seem safer but unpratical. Might scratch the strings.

Just file it down if its not too deep.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2013 13:14:09

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

Jus bought and applied a super glue that comes with a brush.. lets see how it turns outttt tt ttttttt t t t t ttt tftuttttt futtcckkktttttttttt t tttt

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2013 14:10:09

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to tele)

quote:

Just file it down if its not too deep.

Thats how it usually goes. I rarely break nails and when I do its not because of playing. This time there's a diagonal cut besides the part that is missing... I apllied super glue on the thumbnail just to see what the fuss was about

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2013 14:16:47

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Question about Soleá speed (in reply to Sr. Martins)

If all else fails you may need to apply the discharge from a camels toe...... careful how you scoop it out though and you may need to blow on it as it dries. Some people also like to add toilet roll to the product...that's your call but remember it needs to be un-used to take properly.
Best wishes old bean
pink

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2013 19:55:21