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Went to the Guitar Salon
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Arash
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
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 RE: Went to the Guitar Salon (in reply to tele)
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It also depends how thought after a guitar is.
If its a guitar which is cobwebbed after been in the shop for 6 years with no interest from buyers, then you will probably get an amazing deal
We take a $5000 guitar as an example, where both can save face:
You: "Damn. This is a very nice guitar, love it. Too bad i don't have enough money."
Dealer: "How much can you spend?"
You: "I am afraid its not even close to your asking price, so i hesitate to tell you"
Dealer: "Just tell me"
You (taking all of your money out of your pockets, important: put it on the table and empty all your pockets): "If i scrample up all my money together, $3000"
Dealer: "Oh thats really not enough, sorry i can't do that"
You: "Yeah, i was afraid you would say that, i guess i will look if i find one of these in ebay or second-hand market, i want one of these and nothing else. Anyway thanks a lot for your time, i am really sad i have to leave this beauty, but life is not always fair".
Dealer: "hmm, i can talk to my boss and see what we can do, but i can't guaranty anything"
after 2 minutes ...
Dealer: "He said we can do $3500, but thats really the absolute limit and only because of a special deal we had for this guitar"
You: "wow thanks a lot. thats really kind of you, but i only have $3000 and i don't think i can take vacation anytime soon to come back. i came from the bay area. ****."
Dealer (goes back to his boss again and comes back): "ok, but don't tell anyone that we gave you this price"
You: YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!
disclaimer: doesn't always work. 
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Date May 18 2013 13:14:15
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pjn
Posts: 113
Joined: Mar. 23 2009
From: New York
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RE: Went to the Guitar Salon (in reply to lukeofgod)
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Another experience: a year and a half ago, knowing I would be in LA for a couple of days, I wrote GSI and made an "appointment" with one of their high mucky-mucks to visit the shop. (Background: professional player from New York, customer of theirs in the past, blah blah). I wasn't expecting the Grisha treatment but I wasn't expecting this:
Arrived on the scheduled weekday afternoon, not a super busy time; was given to an early 20's "sales associate" whose playing experience was electric guitar. Was shown all the mediocre to appalling instruments which had been sitting around the place for a while, at prices which would be high even were they good instruments.
Asked to see a couple of "high end" instruments -- "oh no, that's a $10,000 guitar, we can't just bring that out for you." -- "Well may I speak with Dave" -- sorry, he's not here" -- but I'm here from New York for one afternoon and I wrote ahead about this" -- well sorry but that's our policy."
In addition, these people set the the standard for over-the-top hype and purple prose in their descriptions; every guitar has "singing/brilliant/crystal clear trebles and "powerful, punchy, furniture rattling basses. Every guitar is incredibly easy to play, has a perfect set-up, boasts gorgeous woods and impeccable workmanship. Yes of course, because they personally have chosen everything about the guitar and have given explicit instructions to the builder on how to make it.
I'm glad you and countless others have had such good experiences but I personally, as someone who has been around the block a couple of times, find the GSI-zation of the guitar "business" not only distasteful but also a disservice to the many journeyman players, amateur and pro alike, who see prices rise while they money we can make at our jobs gets sliced because of the "bad economy."
Solution: Andy Culpepper, Stephen Faulk, Ethan Deutsch, Anders -- deal directly with them. Support the builders, not the p*mps who make money from other people's skill and dedication. I understand that builders want to to get their instruments into shops, it's great exposure and puts the stamp of respectability on their work -- but as someone who needs a good instrument at a fair price and doesn't appreciate a frat house full of smart-alecks, I don't have to like it and I don't. I think this aspect of things is way off the rails.
Outside of that, peace, man.
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Date May 19 2013 4:38:37
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Ricardo
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Went to the Guitar Salon (in reply to pjn)
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quote:
Solution: Andy Culpepper, Stephen Faulk, Ethan Deutsch, Anders -- deal directly with them. Support the builders, not the p*mps who make money from other people's skill and dedication. I understand that builders want to to get their instruments into shops, it's great exposure and puts the stamp of respectability on their work -- but as someone who needs a good instrument at a fair price and doesn't appreciate a frat house full of smart-alecks, I don't have to like it and I don't. I think this aspect of things is way off the rails.
Well, to be fair, there are alternatives. THere is Dan Zeff and Trilogy Guitars in LA area, both had no problem letting myself and some buddies try the most expensive guitars for sale. Dan is especially honest in my experience dealing with him, and often has more interesting selections than GSI, plus he keeps previous sale prices open to public so we can see what's up.
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Date May 19 2013 17:31:40
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Arash
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
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RE: Went to the Guitar Salon (in reply to C. Vega)
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On a serious note: I understand both sides.
Folks who want to save and get the best price like myself.
Shops and dealers who have to make such prices to make some money and a living.
When you have a shop/are a guitar dealer and have many guitars, you have a lot of "dead capital" until something is sold, its not like you buy one guitar, sell it with profit, then buy another one, etc.
So saying "p*mps who make money from other people's skill and dedication" is far fetched. Thats basically the business model of EVERY stockist, shop, etc. no matter which product. When i ordered large quantities of steel in my business to factories, i got much better prices, but longer delivery time. When i wanted to order small quantities, i had to buy from Stockists, with a higher price but immediate delivery (just an example).
Of course employees should always be friendly and should offer many options and treat you well and with respect.
Now when you become bigger and bigger, you sell more, but the problem is that your costs also explode (employees, shop, insurance, tax, etc. etc.) and you have to pay these costs. So it can be that your prices become very high and you always wait for the customers who have a lot of money, don't care, don't compare, etc. Definately a lot of us know about their stuff and are not the "prefered" customers of these BIG shops.
So i personally think (when talking about guitars) small "shops" and "one man dealers" are the best choice and compromise. Thats of course if they also offer "reasonable" prices.
Best compromise for BUYERS too, because you have one advantage with dealers:
1) You can try out the guitar before buying
2) you have a wide selection to compare and chose from
The disadvantage is that you are paying some extra money for this.
But if you are 100% sure that you want one specific guitar model and if you are sure that a guitar which is going to built will be exactly what you want, then best choice is to order directly to the luthier and cut off the middleman. But if you are NOT sure and if you are the type of guy who wants to play the guitar and try it out before buying, or want to buy used guitars, then shops and dealers are a good choice. Thats of course if you visit the shop/dealer and have the opportunity to try out the guitars.
Just my 2 cents.
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Date May 19 2013 20:41:27
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