Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
|
[Deleted]
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
|
Guest
|
 RE: Paco de Lucia's technique (in reply to Guest)
|
|
|
|
Its the angle of the stroke how the sound sounds. Not if you bend the fingers or not. Just the angle. You can produce exacly the same sound with bend fingers and staight fingers.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 27 2005 12:13:57
 |
|
   
Phil
Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain
|
|
RE: Paco de Lucia's technique (in reply to XXX)
|
|
|
quote:
You dont really want to argue which technique is better, do you? This has to be found out by everyone personally...
Phrygus,
Didn't mean to sound overly argumentative. I just happen to have a strong sarcastic streak in me that I have never been able to control.  I've seen arguments on the forums about the "correct" way to play alzapua. Some insist that the movement has to come from only the wrist and others that it's just the thumb that should move. Another argument is whether you should put your middle and/or annular finger on the sound board for support when playing with the thumb. Since it is physically possible to execute these techniques either way and achieve the same effect, it really comes down to a matter of personal choice and physical capacity, and it's kind of silly to insist that one way or the other is the "correct" way. But in this case I'm not arguing that one way is better than the other. I'm saying that the 2nd knuckle picado technique doesn't even exist. I think this is a piece of misinformation that got circulated and has snowballed. I'm trying to imagine some poor beginner getting frustrated and pulling his hair out because he can't execute a technique that is physically almost impossible to do, although there may be somebody in the world that can do it. Whether you play picado with straight fingers or curved fingers is a matter of personal choice and, to some extent, you own physical makeup. But the primary movement is still generated by the 3rd joint (the big knuckle).
Phil
PS. I see that I have some heavy fire power on my side in this. Ricardo is one of the most knowledgeable Flamenco guitarists on this or any other forum. And, unlike me, he can actually play Flamenco guitar.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 4 2005 6:37:43
|
|
XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
|
|
RE: Paco de Lucia's technique (in reply to Guest)
|
|
|
Well its simple.
As the thread title says, we can uses PdLs technique as a basis. To me it is picado, or as you would say, 2nd joint picado.
Of course there is some large knuckle movement, but the main impulse comes from middle joint. Besides, my teacher and also Flamenco methods (Graf-Martinez,etc...) teach it with least large knuckle movement possible. But the reason why there is still some large knuckle movement lies in the anatomy, at least in my case, coz its hardly possible to exclude it. This may have its reasons in evolution, since our fingers got used to a certain movement procedure and the very most of our finger/hand movements include large AND middle joint.
A good example to prove this would also be the little joint. I think its clear now what i wanted to say :) (phew, ive got serious probs keeping it short! )
Anyway, this is not THAT important imho. The only important thing is the sound, and the sound changes with the stroke. However, it is important or it can be helpfull to know how to do this i.e. which possibilities there are and for my person the 2nd joint stroke sounds much harder, more flamencoish if you want, than the classical apoyando with more large knuckle movement.
_____________________________
Фламенко
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 7 2005 0:14:14
|
|
Ricardo
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
|
|
RE: Paco de Lucia's technique (in reply to XXX)
|
|
|
quote:
Well its simple.
As the thread title says, we can uses PdLs technique as a basis. To me it is picado, or as you would say, 2nd joint picado.
Of course there is some large knuckle movement, but the main impulse comes from middle joint. Besides, my teacher and also Flamenco methods (Graf-Martinez,etc...) teach it with least large knuckle movement possible. But the reason why there is still some large knuckle movement lies in the anatomy, at least in my case, coz its hardly possible to exclude it. This may have its reasons in evolution, since our fingers got used to a certain movement procedure and the very most of our finger/hand movements include large AND middle joint.
A good example to prove this would also be the little joint. I think its clear now what i wanted to say :) (phew, ive got serious probs keeping it short! )
Anyway, this is not THAT important imho. The only important thing is the sound, and the sound changes with the stroke. However, it is important or it can be helpfull to know how to do this i.e. which possibilities there are and for my person the 2nd joint stroke sounds much harder, more flamencoish if you want, than the classical apoyando with more large knuckle movement.
Well, I say no. There are differences in expressing sound with ALL the similar RH techniques that classical and flamenco guitar share. Classical apoyando is not picado, true, but pulgar is different soundwise too, as is tremolo, and even arpeggio. Read up on the Aaron Shear method and you see he teaches begginners to play apoyando from the middle knuckle, keep the big joint stiff. The only way to do this as is explained, is by allowing the tip joint to flex. The result is NOT anything like flamenco picado, nor is it meant to be. Could you do picado like this? Yes. Can you go fast? Not really. Does PDL do this? NO. His fingers move as a unit from the big joint, even though the middle knuckle is slightly bent (the medio finger bends more than the index, so the tips are more even length, making string crossings more comfortable). His tip joint does not flex. Check out the side shots in Rito y Geografia and slow it down if you need to, it is quite clear. Big knuckle powers it. I tried the Aaron Shear technique very briefly in college. I equate it to picking style. With a thin floppy pick you don't have the same control over speed and tone as you do with a harder pick.
The best anology to get a feel for the difference was done a while back by Jon maybe. Moving from the 2nd knuckle feels like scratching on the table, without lifting off, where as big joint moving is like tapping on the table.
Ricardo
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 8 2005 6:11:13
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.09375 secs.
|
Printable Version
! 
, when was that on tv? Why have i missed it 
*boast boast boast* hehe 
