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Dyt båt dynamolygte
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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 RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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One of the real attractions of the "off topic" section for me is the wide range of opinions that are expressed on a wide variety of subjects, by people from a wide range of backgrounds. It is a frequent reminder of the broad spectrum of opinion that one seldom hears in the USA.
Given the broad range of opinions, often contradictory, it would be impossible to agree with everyone. But I think it's good to be aware of what people may think. So I am grateful to people who express ideas that are at odds with my own.
Personally, I enjoy being contradicted. It makes me examine my position more carefully and look for more info on the subject of discussion.
One recent, fairly heated discussion prompted me to read a thick book by a well known historian on the subject. I learned a lot.
Of course I don't find personal attacks informative. Though they occur, they are fairly rare in proportion to sincere expressions of ideas. I think it's a good idea to avoid them altogether. When I engage in a discussion it is not with the objective of correcting someone's mistaken ideas. The objective is just to make clear what my take on the subject may be.
Of course, if someone disagrees with me, they are wrong, but that's their problem, not mine 
RNJ
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 7 2013 5:29:05
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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I enjoy participating in the "Off Topic" section because it provides a forum for discussion of a multitude of subjects and opinions. While the other sections concerning flamenco are interesting, many times they are repetitive, as the same questions and observations seem to appear from time to time. And the discussions on technique that clearly interest up-and-coming guitarists (as they should) do not have as much interest for me, mediocre guitarist that I am and always will be.
Like Richard, I ascribe to the idea that any subject--politics, economics, philosophy, social policy, international relations, etc.--is fair game for discussion. And that includes questioning the premise and supporting evidence behind the opinion or assertion. What should be off-limits are personal attacks and assumptions about a member's "social circles," profession, knowledge and experience with different aspects of the topic, and other assumptions about a member making his case. None of us knows what other members' "social circles," knowledge, and experience of the topic are. And even if we did, it would be wrong to essentiallize, and assume that he can be pigeon-holed as having certain attributes. People in the same profession, social circles, and other categories very often have a wide range of opinions.
Regarding the current dust-up over the original comment of "RIP Chavez," I think the original poster had every right to post it without being questioned why he did it. It was his sincere comment. Nevertheless, having raised the issue of Hugo Chavez, who was a very controversial leader to say the least, the subject became fair game for others to offer an opinion on Chavez. And they had a right to do so without having their motives impugned. After all, Chavez's death does not shield him from a discussion about the legacy he established while alive.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Mar. 7 2013 14:04:51
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to BarkellWH)
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Hear, hear.
I almost managed to not say anything, but seeing you and Richard post somehow attracted me once again.
Coming from a political place where some of Hugo Chavez' actions could at least possibly be seen positively--that is, being suspicious of big business, big oil, big banks, MNCs, neo-liberalism, US support of South American coups--it never failed to strike me with what uniformity and aggression the US media attacked Chavez. In our supposedly polarized country, with its supposedly polarized media, apparently the spectrum of permissible opinion does not allow anything but anti-Chavez sentiment. In this atmosphere, to call someone a "dictator" and to think that has expressed a worthy argument or even a thought is not unexpected. But neither repeating a bumper sticker nor unconsciously assuming the values of the media deserve to be called either argument or thought.
_____________________________
Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ
Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 7 2013 18:27:14
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: I'm leaving the off topics section (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
with its supposedly polarized media, apparently the spectrum of permissible opinion does not allow anything but anti-Chavez sentiment. In this atmosphere, to call someone a "dictator" and to think that has expressed a worthy argument or even a thought is not unexpected. But neither repeating a bumper sticker nor unconsciously assuming the values of the media deserve to be called either argument or thought.
Isnt that interesting? Now, the west usually prides itself that it has a "free press". But somehow the opinions thransported through the media mostly seem to concide with the "official" statements by the government. Filtering only those information that suit the national interests (we=good, others=evil), hell even producing wrong information just to fool population for a short time is a common practice in western media, without any neccessary control from officials. I remember that hoax about the Iranian president's statement on the holocaust, which turned out to be an intentional mistranslation.
Now Chavez is all evil. The average man will be able to tell you he is. But, and that is astounding, in 9 out of 10 cases he wont be able to tell why. Western media and democracy has managed to produce completely brainwashed, utterly stupid people that other heavily controlled media and non-free press could only dream of.
_____________________________
Фламенко
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Date Mar. 7 2013 21:54:39
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