RE: Spring Challenge

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Flamencito

Posts: 334
Joined: Oct. 31 2012
From: The Netherlands

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to El Kiko)

@el kiko

We could decide already it will be solea, for which i think i will be able to set up a nice challenge for. Like mentioned before, but with a better description. On the other hand tarantas is going pretty strong as well. It might be too long to wait but im sure some people might have not been around for some days...

We're not in a hurry anyway :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2013 20:58:35

Tomrocker

Posts: 404
Joined: Apr. 18 2010
From: Italy

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Sr. Martins)

1 - Bambera
2 - Debla
3 - Polo

I'll double that just for a change!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2013 22:23:36

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

quote:

We're not in a hurry anyway :)

no no of course not ....I dont mind what palo comes up really , everything is a challenge for me ....

with the exception of Bambera , which is getting votes , 'cos you have to sing it ....that'll be interesting ......

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2013 22:31:09

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

I'd like to change my vote to Martinete!! Get your anvils out people!

Looks like your the man with the plan Flamencito. Spell out the rules and we good to go. I'll help out however I can so feel free to delegate things to me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2013 22:55:08

Flamencito

Posts: 334
Joined: Oct. 31 2012
From: The Netherlands

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Leñador)

Hi all,

Hereby a proposal for the 2013 Spring Challenge.

The palo for this challenge will be:

Soleá

The following rules are applied:

- NO recorded backing tracks
- Has to be played in phrygian mode 'por arriba', capo can be used on any desired position.
- Minimum track lenght 3 minutes
- If you decide to make a longer recording you are allowed to end in Solea por Bulerias or what ever creative ending you feel like.

The submissions will be categorized into two groups:

1. Intermediate/advanced
2. Beginner- beginner/intermediate

The judging will be focussed on the following aspects

1. Compás
2. Overal 'Soleá feel' (Jondo)
3. Expressive quality
4. Creativity
5. Technique

The goal for this challenge is to provide an opportunity for beginning to advanced players.

A nickname category and deadline date will be given in the offical challenge posting.

There might be room for some minor changes in this description if nessecary.

Sounds good/bad? Who's in?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 12:30:59

athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

Should the falsetas be self-composed?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 12:50:16

Flamencito

Posts: 334
Joined: Oct. 31 2012
From: The Netherlands

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to athrane77)

quote:

Should the falsetas be self-composed?

Nope, that's up to you. In a kind of way you are free to use whatever things you want to gain points on the 'judging aspects'.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 12:57:16

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1890
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

two points, 3 minutes is unrealistic, one minute should be sufficient if someone plays at least a falseta or two...for beginners it's nearly impossible...
second, i don't think it should be restricted to regular tuning/por arriba...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 13:01:46

Flamencito

Posts: 334
Joined: Oct. 31 2012
From: The Netherlands

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

Thanks for your feedback xirdneH_imiJ

I've asked Lenador to join me in organising the challenge. All feedback will be taken into account before setting up de final 'challenge description'.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 13:10:10

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

I agree 3 min is too long. even for advanced players.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 14:45:26

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

I'm thinkin 2 minutes is a good minimum, I think I know a falseta or two that are nearly one minute themselves.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 14:53:29

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

I agree 3 min is too long. even for advanced players

Not me.
If you include various couple of compas cycle pattern in between, then the 3min could be filled easily.
But if one plans to play only falsetas after falsetas then it's indeed a bit long.
Depends how you apprende it. Falsetas oriented only or also compas pattern focus...

BTW, I'm not gonna participated in this one.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 16:23:07

Coroy

Posts: 31
Joined: Mar. 8 2012
From: Germany

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

quote:

- NO recorded backing tracks

How am I supposed to play guitar and beats at the same time?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 17:37:33

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

quote:

How am I supposed to play guitar and beats at the same time?

Beatbox

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 17:42:00

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

I think there should be a maximum and the minimum would be 40 sec, 1 min... more than that and it turns into a huge task for begginers like me.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 17:48:25

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

I think there should be a maximum and the minimum would be 40 sec, 1 min... more than that and it turns into a huge task for begginers like me.

If you can't strum the basic compas pattern for more than 1 min, something is going wrong in your learning process imo

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 17:54:56

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

OK thats a good beginning .......

questions ....

I agree it should stay in the ' por arriba ' position, it makes it useful later on ...

not so sure of the minimum track as 3 mins ...

i think we should do an intro bit to get in
a few falsetas 2 or three
and maybe an ending type bit
So its like a mini Solea,... the whole thing could be 3 mins long ...or there about ..

How are you going to divide the beginners and intermediates ?

Beginners would probably not composes , but intermediates could ...however that would change what marks were given ,,,

Personally I would maybe do a mix of composing . altering a falseta or two and sticking bits together with home-made glue ..if thats OK ..

You will need to know who is judging and how that bit works ....

But other than that you nearly got it together ,, ..
Its a tricky thing putting up a challenge , I had a few problems when i did a (,,Cantiñas...). one ..

Remember you cant please all of the people all of the time , so be strong , and dont try to fit everything in that everyone wants or you will end up with a messy challenge ..
that happened a bit to me too ...

I have some suggestions for nicknames later,.., when its time for that ...

I thought it was good to put up a kind of chart at the beginning of the thread to keep track of what everyone was doing for points and stuff ...like at a glance thing ....

But , hey your well on your way .......

I am off to compose now .......

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 17:58:14

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to mezzo)

quote:

If you can't strum the basic compas pattern for more than 1 min, something is going wrong in your learning process imo

Strumming the basic compas for 1 min is a lazy ass approach, I wouldnt even bother to record that for a challenge.

Besides that, not everyone is into the same palos.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 18:11:41

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

Strumming the basic compas for 1 min is a lazy ass approach, I wouldnt even bother to record that for a challenge.

ditto
I concur, in the sense that imo your approch represent well the foro's mainstream spirit.

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 18:19:01

Flamencito

Posts: 334
Joined: Oct. 31 2012
From: The Netherlands

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

Strumming the basic compas for 1 min is a lazy ass approach

I know it's a matter of taste, but hearing Diego del Gastor hitting those basic strumms on his Soleares.... just makes me want to say that i disagree

Cheers

edit / add-on

I do think that even a set of compas strumming can be worth it to sumbit, since also feedback onthat will be helpful for beginners.
For example: I worked my as off on bulerias lately and i'm able to groove a bit now, but for sure i have some own interpretations in it that people will have helpful feedback on. I hope that for this challenge submissions like that will be done. I still have to work on getting my first solea together as well and hopefully i will be able to have some first falseta in my fingers for it

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 23:20:56

Flamencito

Posts: 334
Joined: Oct. 31 2012
From: The Netherlands

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

Ah and by the way. It's great to hear peoples opinion. Special thanks to El Kiko for his input. We might get back on you for some advice

We will set up the challenge try to make it interesting for as many foro members as possible and we kind of decided already that there will be different rules related to the level of players.

Be our guest to submit your input :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2013 23:29:04

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

I think the entries should be between 2 and 3 minutes long. In my opinion more than 3 minutes is very long, especially for beginners. People would need to play 3 or 4 falsetas or put a lot of compás strumming. Also, if you define a minimum duration for the entries, some people will submit entries that are 3 minutes long and others will submit 4 or even 5 minutes. That doesn't make any sense. The entries should all have more or less the same duration because it will be easier to compare them, therefore resulting in a better and fairer judging.

It's just my opinion, I'll be fine with whatever you guys decide. This challenge looks promissing, don't rush to establish the rules. Wait a few more days so we can have some more opinions.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2013 0:40:47

Flamencito

Posts: 334
Joined: Oct. 31 2012
From: The Netherlands

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

quote:

Wait a few more days so we can have some more opinions.

Yep i agree.

This looks like a decent video for guys like me to study. There's some stuff in it i got taught from my teacher and it's very well set-up :)

*edit: and some falseta i found on Norman's site as well

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2013 1:21:07

Northern Rock

Posts: 87
Joined: Oct. 12 2008
From: London UK

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

Fred
I agree with your points and it saves me posting the same thing

Im going to jump in and entre my first challenge piece and I feel that if a intermediate/advanced player cant play Solea ( its not called the "mother" of flamenco for nothing) for 3mins then their doing something very wrong.

I think there should be a upper limlt of 3 to 4 mins and then let people express themselves accordingly.

Thank you to all the guys setting this challenge up. I appreciate the work that goes into this .

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2013 13:42:15

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

New challenge: record something and DONT feel embarrassed while listening to it.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2013 13:56:06

athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

Haha Deniz, that's impossible!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2013 15:08:34

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

quote:

New challenge: record something and DONT feel embarrassed while listening to it.

Not as hard as hearing yourself talk on recordings, I hate that.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2013 15:19:58

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to mezzo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mezzo

quote:

I agree 3 min is too long. even for advanced players

Not me.
If you include various couple of compas cycle pattern in between, then the 3min could be filled easily.
But if one plans to play only falsetas after falsetas then it's indeed a bit long.
Depends how you apprende it. Falsetas oriented only or also compas pattern focus...

BTW, I'm not gonna participated in this one.

Not saying it is difficult for a player to fill the time, rather it will be a tedious listening experience for judges and just fun listeners if there are many contributors. It would be different if say it was 3 minutes of identical material to compare, but 3 minutes each of random mix of a palo it can be hard to keep it all together who played what and what was good here or there etc. I recommend some short and direct to the point material, intro compas, standard arps type thing and one choice falseta, and ending. But that is me. That video above was only 2:42 and was starting to lose my interest pretty fast as something to listen to.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2013 16:44:08

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Flamencito)

quote:

intro compas, standard arps type thing and one choice falseta, and ending

I'm liking that format.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2013 17:17:42

Northern Rock

Posts: 87
Joined: Oct. 12 2008
From: London UK

RE: Spring Challenge (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

2:42 and was starting to lose my interest pretty fast as something to listen to.

I would say youv'e answered your own question there as the challenge would surely be to hold the listeners attention and those that cant get marked down accordingly.

I thought that was the point .

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"Now Im retired I,ve got my practise time down to 4 hours aday".................Julian Bream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2013 20:39:36