Practice Guitar

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Practice Guitar

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Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

Practice Guitar

Iam thinking about buying a cheap practice guitar and Iam not going to ask for opinions on "under €€€ guitar that feels like €€€€€€".

All I want is an inexpensive flamenco guitar that feels and plays like one. In other words, I dont want another yellow classical guitar (high bridge, heavy weight, chunky neck).

I would prefer an ebony fretboard and a "thin-as-possible" body.

If you have had any experience with some of these or have others to add to the list, please do tell:

- Francisco Bros. B20F
- Alhambra 4F

(Ive removed the rosewood fingerboard ones. I feel that's something I would regret right out of the box lol)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2013 21:16:57

rombsix

Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

- Angel Lopez 1246

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=207449&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=angel%2Clopez&tmode=&smode=&s=#207449

(You already give your opinion in the thread above).

Cheers!

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2013 22:38:42

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Hey!

Yes, I remember those videos and re-watched them today. Iam finding very good prices on the guitars Ive mentioned (M. Rodriguez C3F too) but what Iam looking for is not really a sound quality test. Iam more concerned about weight, height at the bridge and neck thickness.

Soundwise, if it doesnt have a boomy-undefined-bass and lacks the roundness & sweetness of a classical, then I will be happy.

Think "plunkety-plunk" like Tomatito's live album with Camaron (Paris 87?) mixed with the super hi-mids/treble punch of Anders' guitars... minus the complexity and quality of tone of course

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2013 22:50:54

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

I have a raimundo 160, some steps up but I like it. It was set up by German Vasquez though, I think that helped a lot. I had not played it prior to this.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2013 23:01:43

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Nah, you're not allowed to go there.. its mod.125 max! looool

But yes, Iam already expecting the need for a setup so that wont be a problem.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2013 23:12:26

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

Think "plunkety-plunk" like Tomatito's live album with Camaron (Paris 87?) mixed with the super hi-mids/treble punch of Anders' guitars... minus the complexity and quality of tone of course

ah...you want a Conde I think!!! But a cordoba should do. Less complex. $$$

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2013 23:21:28

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Hmm... cant find any Cordobas though..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2013 23:38:20

Kalo

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

(You already give your opinion in the thread above).

So, is this what happens when you become an excellent player??? Ramzi, you make that CF1246S sound GREAT!!!!

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2013 23:44:20

rombsix

Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

Iam more concerned about weight, height at the bridge and neck thickness.

I think they're all fine for the Angel Lopez...

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2013 23:46:18

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

The playing is nice but the sound is... round, sweet, and a bit boxy.

I guess I'll have remove that one from the list. Which doesnt necessarily mean that Iam going to get a better one lol

Thanks Ramzi

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2013 23:51:56

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

BTW, do you have a video of some raunchy buleria style playing with the stagg?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2013 23:53:34

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Well... maybe its your recording style (and some reverb maybe?) that is making it all so sweet...

This is a low quality video but it gives a totally different perspective on this guitar:

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2013 23:57:03

Kalo

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

I think all guitars around the $200 to $300 will sound round, sweet and a little boxy...

I just purchased Yamaha CG171sf.....It's on it's way through GC to my house for Monday...I don't it expect that guitar or any cheap guitar to sound like an expensive Flamenco Guitar...

If you want to get something a little more decent that doesn't sound round, sweet and boxy then you should go for a Student Fransico Navarro Guitar....There is guy NOT Ron Hudson, but, a friend of his that were selling the 2012 Student for $749.00 or Best Offer on Ebay...

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2013 0:09:28

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Yes but.. thats like more than double of what Iam expecting to spend :p

I prefer to sacrifice sound quality and have something "anatomically correct" for flamenco now instead of waiting and not playing anything at all

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2013 0:37:20

Kalo

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

Yes but.. thats like more than double of what Iam expecting to spend :p

I prefer to sacrifice sound quality and have something "anatomically correct" for flamenco now instead of waiting and not playing anything at all

I hear ya on this!!! Well, I hope you can find something that you will like in your price range

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2013 0:56:20

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Ive removed the ones with rosewood fingerboard. You may suggest a model with it if its a "super compressed black rosewood grain that feels like ebony", although in my experience that kind of rosewood is called ebony

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2013 2:09:30

rombsix

Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

BTW, do you have a video of some raunchy buleria style playing with the stagg?

I start with the cheap Lopez, then I go to the more expensive Hermanos Sanchis.

I did not edit the sound at all in this recording. You might want to raise the volume on your speakers a bit. Watch in HD 720 p for best sound / video.

I hope this helps...

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2013 4:38:31

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Thanks Ramzi!

In fact (Iam gonna get crucified by saying this), I find that there's not much of a difference but I dont doubt that they might feel very different.

The Lopez has a more boxy and undefined midrange whereas the Sanchis sounds much more balanced and with no "eq spikes".

Of course the microphone you're using also gets into the equation but anyway, this video clears things up by comparison.

BTW, how's that rosewood on the fingerboard? Do you know the weight of the Lopez?

Thanks again

(forgot to turn on 720p lol.... anyway, my conclusion is about the same)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2013 11:35:47

rombsix

Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

BTW, how's that rosewood on the fingerboard? Do you know the weight of the Lopez?

Regarding the neck: the Sanchis is easier to play of course, but the Lopez is not completely crappy...

I just tested both - the weights are exactly the same at 1.4 kg each. However, the Lopez is a 645 mm scale length with a thinner and smaller body. The Sanchis is a 660 mm scale length and thus has a fatter and larger body. So I guess the "density" of the Lopez is higher.

I hope this helps...

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2013 15:10:29

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

1.4kg seems ok, much better than mine at 1.7kg with a truss rod lol

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2013 15:31:32

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

I am not going to ask for opinions on "under €€€ guitar that feels like €€€€€€".

All I want is an inexpensive flamenco guitar that feels and plays like one. In other words, I dont want another yellow classical guitar (high bridge, heavy weight, chunky neck).

Personally i don't look at labels classical/flamenco. All i care for is playability and my cheap childhood classical guitar has more to offer to a professional flamenco guitar player than any cheap flamenco guitar i tried over the years (they also suffer high bridges and bad necks more often than not).

If i had to buy myself a cheap flamenco-proof guitar my best hope would be to find myself a second hand occasion of my childhood classical guitar which at the time was hand picked by an expert, way under $$$$ and (as i know now) feeling and playing like a $$$$$ guitar. It has a low bridge and an excellent neck and i don't mind using it on stage in stead of my (equally heavy) Conde (as long as a mic is available)...my father, who bought numerous guitars for his students, played one of that series as well (until a cat pissed on it). But suggestions about a cheap 40 year old fabric made triplex classical guitar model that manual wise might play and feel like a $$$$$ flamenco guitar is obviously not what you want.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2013 15:53:32

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

- Francisco Bros. B20F
- Alhambra 4F

Right now Iam looking at these two guitars. Alhambra might not employ top of the line materials at this price but they have something that can be even more important at this price range: consistency. Also, they seem to have a pretty responsive customer service.

But Iam a bit concerned, seems like the new Alhambra's are not what they used to be... different headstock, a not-so-good-looking rosette and the inside sticker has no serial number or model. Iam talking about the 4F model, dont know about the others.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2013 16:14:07

FlamencoD

Posts: 113
Joined: Apr. 7 2012
From: Portland, OR

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

So you want an ebony fretboard, but want to spend only $350? I don't think that exists. But for what you're looking for a Cordoba F7 would work. Use a coupon and it'd be around $420 new, I think. I've played one and I think it had pretty decent action, it definitely didn't feel like a classical. It wasn't half bad for the price. It was a lot better than every Yamaha CG Flamenco I've played. The Rodriguez FF (high end Manuel Rodriguez factory guitar) I owned for a week had really high action (almost classical like), so I don't know about the C3F and its setup.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2013 3:58:56

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

I think you are taking american prices as basis, which might be misleading because guitars we have here for around 250€ you guys are paying 700$ over there.

You can have ebony fretboards on 100€ guitars, its all about who you're buying from.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 10 2013 13:09:20

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Here's a picture Ive found of the new Alhambra 4F model.

If the color is anywhere near what Iam seeing though my screen, this is a really sexy guitar

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2013 13:54:49

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Oh...

..and then we have this picture where the guitar looks like plain brown ugly

edit: These judgments are only valid though my eyes and computer screen.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2013 13:58:04

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Ok, Ive just placed an order on the 4F but I would like to show you how nice this Prudencio Saez 15 (around 260€) sounds. I just dont like rosewood fretboards.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2013 16:57:30

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Practice Guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins)

In conclusion, the Alhambra 4F arrived yesterday.

It has the typical Alhambra neck shape (not the low end models shape that feels like a log) and I was surpised by the quality of this guitar.

It seems to have a much thinner finish than the 7P and 7C models Ive played over the years. It has a 7 + 2 fan pattern, thin top and it is very vibrant, it feels like the guitar as an engine inside whenever you strike a chord.

Ive changed the saddle and lowered the nut but the setup from factory was good to go. Low action, nice tuners and excellent fretwork.

Although it is still stabilizing (new strings), there are no wolf notes. The sound projects very well but I have to wait a few days because I cant judge a guitar with new strings. Right now every rasgueo sounds like a series of slaps in the face (which is a good thing by the way )

Oh, and the rosette is beautiful, really!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2013 17:37:35