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I hadn't heard of Henry Giroux before. Strikes me he's a wise man and someone to check out further.
I suppose it's always the same story of viewing the glass half empty or half full. What one consider wise is perceived as foolish by another
There's something in Giroux's vid that I have difficulty to grasp due to european point of view I suppose. It's around 5min when he talk about the right wing students that came into the classroom specialy to check out how the speech is orientated. That they're contracted by organizations in order to generate lawsuits. That kind of harassment...WTF?? Militia mindset is allowed, but 'free' speech in education is kind of under control! Not to mention this opinion of hiring professor according to their ideologies...no comment!
Interesting. Thanks for the link. I watched the vid and there's some good point in it. Even if I could understand why he's controversial.
He made no bones about dubya's lot. "I think that we therefore have to face the Obama presidency, honestly and soberly. I mean, I was very happy when Obama won, and I’m still happy that Obama won. And what a relief. I mean, just, that was to me the word that came to me, relief. We’re through with those . . . whatever they are. War criminals, really, war criminals. Really." (see here)
"I wanted to design a lesson that would get students to surface the definitions of terrorism that they carry around — albeit most likely unconsciously. And I wanted them to apply their definitions to a number of episodes, historical and contemporary, which involved some kind of violence or destruction. I didn’t know for certain, but my hunch was that as students applied definitions consistently, they might be able to call into question the “We’re Good/They’re Bad” dichotomies that have become even more pronounced on the political landscape.
So I wrote up several “What Is Terrorism?” scenarios, but instead of using the actual names of countries involved, I substituted fictional names. Given the widespread conflation of patriotism with support for U.S. government policies, I had no confidence that students would be able to label an action taken by their government as “terrorism” unless I attached pseudonyms to each country."
I can imagine this patriot guy, portrayed in the cartoon I posted above, frustrating about these pedagogics activities that could provoke unsettlement to his childrens.
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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
Anyone arguing to keep political lobbying and corporation driven funding out of education decision taking is wise in my book. Seems to be a really serious problem from what he says. Says a lot to up and go.
I remember reading how America had an established system offering decent local medical care back in the late 1800's early 1900's, obviously unregulated and therefore, variable, they my fellow Scott, Andrew Carnegie, got involved with his pals and set up teaching hospitals with an industrialist on the board of each which in turn, sparked off Pharmacutical Industry and gave rise to the AMA who were required to push drugs as cure. The indigenous practitioners were branded 'Quacks' and outlawed. Some of these guys however, had developed natural medicines and remedies but these were forced out the system. If you're interested, check out: Rene Caisse, Dr Max Gerson, Dr Geerd Hamer, Dr Ernst T Kerbs and Hoxsey... Some of these guys reported natural cures for cancer and that set alarm bells ringing, no money in that. End of a culture if business takes over education.
ORIGINAL: Ricardo If that documentary is taken as like stuff to study for real, knowing that it paints US gov in a bad light, well, again its just proof how free our country is to let that thing happen.
No. The question whether something gets censored or not, hasnt got anything to do with the question whether what gets censored or not is a true statement or a correct criticism of something. Or would you say that the censorship during the anti-communistic hysteria days automatically proves that those critics were right? Of course not. Killing Stone would be an option, only if he had more influence than he has now. Once he becomes a threat to the Government, i will guarantee you he will get harmed in some way. 100%. As long as he is no threat, and just perceived as an entertainer, there is no real reason to kill him anyways, so its not really an act of humanity to let him make these movies...
Well about anit commi stuff, every american uses term "mcarthyism" as a very negative thing. Witchhunt is used in combo. Its very much against what america is about. About the rest of what you said... Guaranteed?? As if he is NOT an entertainer but an informer of deep dark truths...Shakin my head. I tried.
Nono, be careful. Didnt say he is telling truth or that he is NOT an entertainer. What i said has nothing to do with the actual theories of Stone. Just said AS SOON as he is taken serious by a non-negligible amount of people in the US, or if he represents any threat to governmental activities, he will, 100% guaranteed, get harmed in some way. It makes NO SENSE to assume that a government is taking (financial, military, whatever) damage only for the sake of being perceived as "free", if said government is able to prevent said damage. McCarthy is just a tiny cut of history, there has been anti-communism anytime and anywhere. I just used communism as an example of a theory which you wont agree with only because it got censored. What im trying to say is, there is no reason to censor a theory which is practically irrelevant anyways. Thats THE ONLY reason why it DOESNT get censored in the first place.
Revisionism can be taken pejoratively or positively.
ok it seems that I misunderstood you.
I understand what you guys said about O. Stone. But I don't think he considers himself as an authority. Discretiding this 10 part series and the book just coz he's involved in, it's a little harsh.
What about the co-author. He's an PhD Historian who teachs in a University. So eventually he's a reliable intellectual. Maybe you might not agree with his argumentation but he's still part of the establishment. Basically what you guys are saying it's that P. Kuznick is a JOKE (?). I'd give him the benefice of the doubt and believe in the first place that what's writing on his book is something he works on and adhere with, and not just a narrative that O. Stone dicted to him.
And talking about education...
IN that video at 23:43 ...um...I live here, I never took a poll about it but I have never met a single american that believes what he states there. And he spouts off numbers as authority...40%, no 50%, no more than 50%... give me a break dude. I think he has a point about limited choices in universities but all students know that ****. NOw what I DO see is foreign people come here to study in our universities and when you ask them what their major is it becomes predictable when you see their group, what ever it is from what ever country, tends to all "want" the same exact focus. It's a comedy to me how sheep like people are all around this world...when SO much is available to them. I blame, again the STUDENTS...not the teacher nor the institute nor the money sources. Sorry.
About the nerd in the vid who talked about Right wing observers in a class influencing the programs...again bunch of crap, and I again I blame students. Then about the students that in NC that tried to sue the university about darwin... again, the students fault.
quote:
It makes NO SENSE to assume that a government is taking (financial, military, whatever) damage only for the sake of being perceived as "free", if said government is able to prevent said damage.
I know it makes no sense to other folks, but it's why our country is free. To the point you can get away with treason...but you will be punished for it and for good reason. Some americans get angry at those paranoid weed smokers that sit around talking crap all day long. If there were any truth to the paranoia as I said, you would be taken out BEFORE you get to commit treason. Treason does get commited belive it or not. THAT is what is unbelievable actually. But we have many more defectors than not.
NOw what I DO see is foreign people come here to study in our universities and when you ask them what their major is it becomes predictable when you see their group, what ever it is from what ever country, tends to all "want" the same exact focus. It's a comedy to me how sheep like people are all around this world...when SO much is available to them. I blame, again the STUDENTS...not the teacher nor the institute nor the money sources. Sorry.
So if I made an analogy with flamenco . Basically you're saying that if there's more and more flamenco pop rumbita light that are produced nowadays is the listeners fault. The audience want light stuff, so producers and artists gave them what they want. So what's matter is the market. Consumers order. That's basically what the guy stated in the video. Students are considered like consumers. But then what we have to ask is why the audience wants light stuff and do not care much for jondo. Marketing, mainstream thoughts, educational background, yes no?
quote:
About the nerd in the vid who talked about Right wing observers in a class influencing the programs...again bunch of crap, and I again I blame students.
Why bunch of crap. Is this untrue? And why blame the student, if he's getting paid for such activities. Buzine$$ is good. Students need money to repay their loan.
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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
IN that video at 23:43 ...um...I live here, I never took a poll about it but I have never met a single american that believes what he states there. And he spouts off numbers as authority...40%, no 50%, no more than 50%... give me a break dude.
You live in the Washington, D.C. area. I live in Texas. At Thanksgiving I recited to myself over and over as I took the 2 1/2-hour drive to the family gathering, "Don't talk politics with E."
I omitted the next logical step, which was to resolve to lie, and claim that I had not voted in the presidential election.
E. is a close relative. She is an intelligent, educated person. She was responsible for running a significant program at a major institution of higher learning before she retired.
When I said that I found it difficult to see what Romney's position was on certain issues, she said, "You didn't vote for Obama, did you?" Caught flatfooted without a rehearsed lie, I admitted that I had.
E. erupted in rage. She screamed and shouted, "Don't tell me you voted for a Muslim communist from Kenya who signed partial birth abortion into law!!!" She raged on at considerable length. I had heard the first three lies before, but the partial birth abortion one left me speechless. When I say "speechless", I mean speechless. I was stunned to hear such an enormity from an educated person.
I saw that it would be perfectly useless to respond. It was painful to remain silent while she maligned my godless villainy. She ranted on about Obama's attack on Christianity and his intention to destroy the U.S.A. Finally she calmed down enough to say we should probably never discuss politics. I agreed heartily.
I emphasize that this is an intelligent, educated woman who has lived in a foreign country for a few years, although that was in the Near East more than 30 years ago.
It would not surprise me to learn that some of her equally well educated progeny shared her views, though I know that some do not. The ones who don't share her views don't live in Texas.
Very large numbers of people believe all kinds of crazy stuff here in Texas, and in other similar parts of the country. I don't know about Iraqis on the 9/11 airplanes, but...partial birth abortion signed into law by Obama?
Your close relative "E" sounds like she is the Lunatic Right Wing equivalent of those like Oliver Stone and Michael Moore on the Lunatic Left Wing of the spectrum, Richard. Be they on the Right or on the Left, everything is always due to a conspiracy. Those on the fringe cannot be convinced that any thing just happens. No, everything happens because of the "conspiracy," whether that of Obama surreptitiously trying to turn America into a Socialist country under Shari'a Law and the UN trying to take over America with Black Helicopters; or the military, CIA, and national security organs assassinating John F. Kennedy and the Obama Administration trying to undermine our freedom by renewing the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). The conspiracy theorists all believe that the US Government has an ulterior motive for everything it does, and that ulterior motive is always malevolent.
Cheers,
Bill
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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
On the topic of Dept. of Justice making clear that drones can kill US citizens overseas if they commit high treason.
I remember when 911 happened and it was revealed there were young American men who had participated with Al Qieda work....or had become Muslim and acted like Islamic Tokyo Roses by broadcasting anti American screed on TV. Pro Bush people wanted them killed for treasonous behavior. Now there's a means in place to kill them, but the former pro Bush conservative media pundits call foul because it happens the during the Obama administration.
A combination of bad memory, hypocrites and the usual self serving manipulation. Not that I condone droning. The drone programs by the way were being conceived of and developed in the 1970's at the same time the Stealth aircraft were being developed at Northrup and Skunkworks, and continued to be developed under presidents Carter, Reagan, GHW Bush, Clinton, and GW Bush.
Obama gets left holding the bag of drones which DOD rallied for 35-40 years ago. At some point someone in aerospace took Reagan's aides in the back room and said: Hey get him to dump Starwars and lets keep developing drones.
But does the conservative public remember this? Did they research where the drone programs came from?..Nope. Did Dick Cheney want these toys and this permission? Yes.
For anyone interested in how aerospace contractors and the US government interact when they are making a purchase this book has some pretty interesting historical insights. It is the personal memoir of one of the former heads of Skunkworks, the secretive and smelly design hanger where many famous aircraft were created, notably the U-2 and the A-11 the fastest aircraft ever built.
This covers the 1950's when the Century Series of fighter planes were developed. And it goes in depth about the differences between Russian Mikoyan (Mig fighters) designs and American designs and the relationship between design and the cold war.
If you are looking for dirt on the US this is an excellent book, and if you are looking for reasons to prop up the US this is an excellent book, which means it is an excellent book. There are personal reflections on Eisenhower's relationships with his aircraft designers most notably Kelly Johnson the great unknown 20th century designer of America. If you like 1950's American auto design, you can thank Kelly Johnson for giving the auto designers all the ideas to put tail fins on cars. They were looking at the lines of his planes.
You can also read how the U-2 spy plane was designed by Johnson and how Edwin Land, the inventor of the Polaroid Camera created the optics to photograph Russian bombers on the ground from way up high.
It also touches on the beginnings of the drone program....published in 1995..when I read it.
You live in the Washington, D.C. area. I live in Texas. At Thanksgiving I recited to myself over and over as I took the 2 1/2-hour drive to the family gathering, "Don't talk politics with E."
I sympathize, I deal with both political party views around these parts. But my point was that poll has no relevance to the reality I know (I HAVE travelled outside DC and have met MANY americans), and it makes me question all the other info coming from that guy. Things that I find exaggerated or unbelievable or blown out of proportion that he says there, probably are.
quote:
So if I made an analogy with flamenco . Basically you're saying that if there's more and more flamenco pop rumbita light that are produced nowadays is the listeners fault.
Its a "fault" yes if you consider it "bad" or harmful and such a finger needs to be pointed to someone. I don't find it a good analogy. Considering the available spectrum of music, light stuff is bought more disproportionally to other kinds of music...this is indeed the consumer's fault, and all their sheep friends. It's not a good analogy because not all light pop produced is designed as only a money making venture. Indeed, many pop artists in fact know no other art form than the one they produce and it's not their "fault" if it becomes popular or fails. But when more diverse artists are "forced" to deliver to consumers contractually, it is a problem.
The word 'bastard' used as a swear does not get censored, but a personal pronoun does...LOL
His problem for being called Dick
The uncle I was named after was called by his nickname by everyone without batting an eye. So was I. When I was in high school in the early 1950s, there was a certain amount of joking around about my nickname.
When I was 16, I was 6'4" tall (193 cm) and weighed 190 pounds (86 kg). People learned to pronounce my nickname with a straight face.
I became known within a certain part of my industry in the late 1970s. People then had little trouble with my nickname. During the last 20 years of my career, my friends and contemporaries used by nickname. Younger people were visibly uncomfortable with it, and called me "Richard".
The recent publicity for Richard III reminds me of my theory. I think the Tudors started a campaign to make his nickname a synonym for the male member. "Crooked Dick, the bastard King of England" is a scurrilous ballad that originated during the reign of Henry VIII.
A collateral ancestor named Richard Jernegan was a Knight of the Bath, and hence an intimate of Henry VIII. He always appears in Edward Hall's "Chronicle" as "Sir Richard". Hall's Chronicle was commissioned by the Tudors (or was it Wolsey?} to justify the defeat of Richard Plantagenet in battle, and the accession of Henry VII to the throne.
According to my theory, web apps now censor my nickname in response to a political campaign launched in the 16th century.
"I know it makes no sense to other folks, but it's why our country is free." It makes no sense absolutely, like for all humans in all eternity :D. Your country is free because there is no threat to its sovereignity, that would be practically relevant. Other states are not in that condition, the amount of freedom in those states is less. This obvservation is true for all democratic states and all epoches that i know. Freedom has never been "you can do whatever you want", it is always a particular freedom for a particular act, granted by a power (NOT YOU or anybody that is subjected by this power), and which secures that nothing you can do within that freedom in any way is a serious threat to that power. (even true for non-states, ie earlier centuries) The existence of martial law, where most freedom is taken away from the citizen as soon as the public order is in danger, is nothing but a proof of my definition of freedom.
"To the point you can get away with treason...but you will be punished for it and for good reason. If there were any truth to the paranoia as I said, you would be taken out BEFORE you get to commit treason. Treason does get commited belive it or not. " If someone gets punished, how do you define getting away with it then???? You cant prevent people from acting against the law, you would need to bust them preemptively, like in "minority report ". As i said i dont care whether the theories you, albeit wrongly, call paranoia are true theories, i am assuming they are not. But even if it were, there is no reason to censor it, if it does not harm any official interests or activities. And Stone's theories are simply nothing that needs to be taken serious PRACTICALLY, even if they were correct THEORETICALLY. You said it yourself, he is perceived as an entertainer by most. In that function, he is even benefitting the state, and he is successfull too, so he helps growing the economy etc ...
Some of the long term effects and immediate consequences about the use of this technological weaponery is summarize in this alternative report.
About Obama's policies in war on terror and his approch of it, J. Scahill investigated on this and there's a new documentary based on his work "Dirty Wars: The World Is a Battlefield" awarded at Sundance festival 2013.
""We're looking right now at a reality that President Obama has essentially extended the very policies that many of his supporters once opposed under President Bush," says Scahill, author of the bestseller "Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army," and a forthcoming book named after his film"
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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
"I know it makes no sense to other folks, but it's why our country is free." It makes no sense absolutely, like for all humans in all eternity :D. Your country is free because there is no threat to its sovereignity, that would be practically relevant. Other states are not in that condition, the amount of freedom in those states is less. This obvservation is true for all democratic states and all epoches that i know. Freedom has never been "you can do whatever you want", it is always a particular freedom for a particular act, granted by a power (NOT YOU or anybody that is subjected by this power), and which secures that nothing you can do within that freedom in any way is a serious threat to that power. (even true for non-states, ie earlier centuries) The existence of martial law, where most freedom is taken away from the citizen as soon as the public order is in danger, is nothing but a proof of my definition of freedom.
"To the point you can get away with treason...but you will be punished for it and for good reason. If there were any truth to the paranoia as I said, you would be taken out BEFORE you get to commit treason. Treason does get commited belive it or not. " If someone gets punished, how do you define getting away with it then???? You cant prevent people from acting against the law, you would need to bust them preemptively, like in "minority report ". As i said i dont care whether the theories you, albeit wrongly, call paranoia are true theories, i am assuming they are not. But even if it were, there is no reason to censor it, if it does not harm any official interests or activities. And Stone's theories are simply nothing that needs to be taken serious PRACTICALLY, even if they were correct THEORETICALLY. You said it yourself, he is perceived as an entertainer by most. In that function, he is even benefitting the state, and he is successfull too, so he helps growing the economy etc ...
Freedom to talk against the governments actions is allowed and tolerated. We want that freedom to speak out and take down the government if need be. In case of martial law, if the people at large are under attack by the admin in power (not an individual), we have second amendment. There is not ever a need to take out citizens that speak out or leak top secret info in black covert operations...as sexy as that sounds. Instead what happens is secrets are sold or whatever, it is discovered, and then we can punish those involved for endangering the nation.
The conspiracy concept is this: government is a dark evil entity bent on world domination and has already and is silencing those with info...yet it leaks out and those that reveal it are labelled as crazy and paranoid and thus the evil entity need not act and can continue with it's dark plans. My point is this. If this were true, then why the all mighty in control even BOTHER with the illusion of rights and freedoms AT ALL? It has no need if its so true the people CAN NOT bring it down. Well, the further conspiracy is that the gov wants to maintain the illusion and slowly remove freedoms law by law... at the level of hating the polar opposite administrative party. And so it goes on and on....People like STONED ARE believed by many...that is why he can do something called a documentary. People believe that crap, and further like to twist the "information" to their personal liking. For example a democrat will go "republicans are ignorant and prejudice and hate poor people so there must be some hidden agendas by them, stoned is on to something...yes thats it JOHNSON killed him for profit!!!!"
Anyway, it's how I see it living here, and not being polarized either direction. People of this world always getting all worked up about stuff they make up in their heads. Look if people that i meet personally were talking bad about the gov, yet NOT smoking weed all the time and paranoid about all kinds of stuff, I might be worried. For the right wingers, well, they just need some science classes and encouraged to spend some money if they have any, that's all.
Anyway, it's how I see it living here, and not being polarized either direction.
Not at all, I guess. Yes, you live there. And you see people crudely and unnecessarily losing their homes. You see them losing their savings and private old-age pensions. And you see them ruined through world´s No.1 usury in the pharmaceutical and medical branch. And the creaming off behind it all of people who so blatantly are untouchable by a state, which so blatantly is not the state of the people, but of the ruling minority. With a blatant imbalance between what indicates the actual reign and what on the other hand could hypothetically present indices of a merely failing democracy, you manage fancying things as basically authentic and sincere.
But it is the others who are unflinching, aren´t they.
Anyway, it's how I see it living here, and not being polarized either direction.
Not at all, I guess. Yes, you live there. And you see people crudely and unnecessarily losing their homes. You see them losing their savings and private old-age pensions. And you see them ruined through world´s No.1 usury in the pharmaceutical and medical branch. And the creaming off behind it all of people who so blatantly are untouchable by a state, which so blatantly is not the state of the people, but of the ruling minority. With a blatant imbalance between what indicates the actual reign and what on the other hand could hypothetically present indices of a merely failing democracy, you manage fancying things as basically authentic and sincere.
But it is the others who are unflinching, aren´t they.
Ruphus
Where there is smoke there is fire, surely. However, where you live sounds so lovely, can I be your neighbor?
If that is the actual depth of thought that you operate on regarding the matter, ... then it might explain how you balance things.
If the place where I am staying was even more corrupted than the place you live in, would that change anything on the actual status of any of the two?
Would the fake democracy that you live in become more authentical with any measure of worse being of the place I am?
Years ago one of the representatives here uttered to the rough extend of: "If it would become necessary to sacrifice half of our population for our belief then doing so would be justified in the same time". So, over here the reign feels much less due to keep up a pretention of democracy ( eventhough the president once did claim that it would be the "freeest democracy in the world") and makes less of a fuzz when they feel like taking measures or even liquidate individuals. And means of suppression are much less subtle and refined than those applied at your place.
But would the comparison with the worse ( for own citizens) grant your place any of its missing democratic authencity?
Don´t even think about it. The answer is: No.
Evading to comparison makes no factual difference.
Ok great, thanks for doing all the deep thinking for me. Ok now can we move to norway (or switzerland) or South America and be happy finally and admit we can't fight the world order with our guitars? Or must we continue complaining and pointing fingers in vain at the invisible/untouchable evils in control of our pathetic existences? Oh, what to do now???
Realize independently of whether you personally feel prepared for eying ugliness or not. For, realizing is the indispensable precondition for conscious change.
Showing others that nothing in this system happens really in their interest, convincing them to reject their role in society, which has the purpose to enrichen OTHER people than them, and for which they are only a vehicle. Either that or following rules that others have set for you to exploit you in the most efficient way, meanwhile you can (mis-)perceive these rules as freedom and think its a great way to spend your lifetime working, paying taxes and go to war for OTHER people's purposes... the point is, you cant choose your system, for the simple fact that others have chosen it for you because they have an interest in you. Thats why you have to fight to get a decent life. "Freedom of speech" my ass
Showing others that nothing in this system happens really in their interest, convincing them to reject their role in society, which has the purpose to enrichen OTHER people than them, and for which they are only a vehicle. Either that or following rules that others have set for you to exploit you in the most efficient way, meanwhile you can (mis-)perceive these rules as freedom and think its a great way to spend your lifetime working, paying taxes and go to war for OTHER people's purposes... the point is, you cant choose your system, for the simple fact that others have chosen it for you because they have an interest in you. Thats why you have to fight to get a decent life. "Freedom of speech" my ass
Well thanks to god (ie deniz and ruphus and my other socialist buddies who managed to research youtube for the truth) I now have the truth in my hands. Lets see, showing others...I know make a movie!!! Expose the truth! yes yes brilliant!!! Put it on youtube...yes this will open the eyes of the dumb slave lambs of america!!!!
Oh but wait...should I be worried about getting taken out by black covert ops??
Can you please stop lumping me in with conspiracy theorists (or even Ruphus)? Im pretty sure i dont deserve this sh*t post of yours, so F U too And stop calling me socialist, thats rude!! I take offense to that. (If you knew the meaning of that term you would use it in the first place...)
Can you please stop lumping me in with conspiracy theorists (or even Ruphus)? Im pretty sure i dont deserve this sh*t post of yours, so F U too And stop calling me socialist, thats rude!! I take offense to that. (If you knew the meaning of that term you would use it in the first place...)
Ok ok man relax...it should be obvious I am just about done with this stuff and joking around at this point. Back to half compases.
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Guaranteed?? 
. Basically you're saying that if there's more and more flamenco pop rumbita light that are produced nowadays is the listeners fault. The audience want light stuff, so producers and artists gave them what they want. 
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