RE: how to create a falseta

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Ricardo

Posts: 14804
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
The point is the same...flamenco as a genre does not allow for carefree watered down shallow attempts at creativity.

This must be from your application letter to the flamenco police LOL. Im not sure what you mean. I would consider creating a traditional solea falseta a very shallow attempt at creativity, because you can stick very closely to previous variations, so there is little creativity needed, and it will sound flamenco because people are used to have a certain sound in solea. A different task would be to incorporate the Billy Jean (or whatever else) melody into a solea falseta. I could imagine that would take some more skill to make it sound right. So all in all: flamenco does not = high or advanced creativity.

Not sure what I mean? So a student that has hardly an idea about solea because they just started learning the form and more than likely has a limited collection of recordings as references wakes up one morning and bam, they suddenly exhibit "advanced creativity" because they made up something "new"? One need not "compose" a damn thing in solea to be creative with it if you understand how to use building blocks to improvise. But anyway I am loosing patience for arguing a silly point that all the maestros of the past have already discussed in interviews. Nothing is illegal musically speaking do what ever you want kids.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 13:28:48

britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

is not just about creativity and technique. There is also respect for the tradition, and taste.

AMEN!!!

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 14:07:51

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian

the best things i came up with were mixing different falsetas of other people, changing small parts in them etc..

playing other peoples falsetas does not mean at all you cant be creative and insert yourself and your own personality into it...

just my opinion...when you are ready to compose you own falsetas, you wont need to ask here on how to do it...you just will because youl know exactly what you want

Totally second that, in fact i even added a couple of words in above quote to make it sound a little bit more "me":-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 17:30:23

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

So a student that has hardly an idea about solea because they just started learning the form and more than likely has a limited collection of recordings as references wakes up one morning and bam, they suddenly exhibit "advanced creativity" because they made up something "new"?

I once was invited to have a chat with someone who had sold a flamenco show to various theaters and now was looking for people to help him to create/perform that show. Most of the intended members of the company had no or little experience with flamenco. They expected me to compose half of the show. But no worries, if i delivered a chord schedule for tientos/tangos other members (with i think a jazz background) would make the melodies. When others agreed to make a 20 minute seguiriyas (without knowing the compas nor the palo) i packed my guitar and left, declining that incredible financial offer of receiving an astonishing 100,- per show...
well, thats to say 100,- in pre-euro guldens, meaning less than 50,- euro a show :-) The show premiered 3 mounds later without my support and actually wasn't that bad as i expected it to be (they seemed to have hired some experienced players after all).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 18:00:23

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to NormanKliman)

quote:

Stephen, is that a photo of Fletcher?

It's Severus Snape, my alter ego. A joke to go with Erik's Harry Potter falseta vid.

But I know the "Fletchie" of whom you speak. Met him a few times. DS tells a great story called "the thumb sucking story." Among others. I have a funny Fletcher story too. What a character.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 19:01:17

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Totally second that, in fact i even added a couple of words in above quote to make it sound a little bit more "me":-)

brilliant, great subtle sense of humor you got there Erik

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 19:06:31

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Ricardo)

I took the liberty of formalizing the citation notice. Please print these out and cite anyone not following the proper procedures. You know who 'They' are.

FLAMENCO BUREAU of INVESTIGATION

OFFICE OF THE SUPERINTENDENT

CITATION OF WARNING TO THE OFFENDING PARTY

It has come to the attention of one of the Field Warrant Investigation Officers that you have been involved in the illicit activity of composing Flamenco Palo Falsetas without proper Falseta Licensure or Taste Training.

Please cease all compositional activities in any way resembling Flamenco Toque until further notice or be subject to a fine in the amount of 10,000 Euros and Imprisonment in a Flamenco Reeducation Work Facility in Gulagvilsk Siberia.

Failure to fully comply with FBI Field Officers will result in sudden and permanent impoundment of all musical instruments in your possession. Please recase your instrument immediately and Do Not attempt to tune or otherwise make any audible sound whatsoever on said instrument for the duration of days, weeks or months an FBI Field Officer imperiously judges is sufficient to squelch your tasteless creative inquisitive behavior and your blatant breech of non inquisitive agreement which you non verbally agreed to when you agreed to learn Flamenco.

Further non compliance or explorative forays into FAKEMENKO genres will result in more arduous disciplinary actions and longer Work Camp sentences.

THIS IS A FIRST WARNING NOTICE.
PLEASE COMPLY FULLY AND NON CREATIVELY WITH ATTENDING FIELD OFFICER

Thank You,

FLAMENCO TASTE COMPLIANCE AND SECURITY FEILD DETAIL ATTACHMENT,

OFFICE OF THE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE FLAMENCO BUREAU of INVESTIGATION

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 21:32:22

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to estebanana)

Hey estebanana ...that falseta wasnt mine ... i got it from a "friend "' i dont have any ' Learn to play Flamenco in a day' books anymore ...I have been checked a few years ago when the flamenco police came round and I had to play for them......honest ....

it was just a one off offence for me ... you know,,I was young then and Amajor and Bb was all I knew ... I mean everyone was doing it ,,.peer pressure , you know ...

gimme a break man .....

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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 21:58:49

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Ricardo)

The problem in creating falseta in my case is.. even if I practice existing falsetas...they sound ugly for a while..till I get em down. Then its enjoyable..If I create... everything sounds like crap anyways...and then waiting till I get it down..man..thats a lot of waiting..possibly with an unsatisfying result. So... I chose not to create...

Ok and now a nasty comment..but facing truth often hurts..but I think everybody should face it. Otherwise no progress possible.

Beginners should not create because they simply couldnt play anything enjoyable anyways.., I saw a lot of beginners composing (outside the foro)..and it was never good. They make you lie, to tell em..ah..its..oookayy.. but in reality they suck. And this is why I even don´t like it when some beginner comes up with .."hey I composed xy..listen". Because I could either tell em..guy..stop it..ear bleeding alarm...or I have to lie. I dislike both scenarios. Beginners shoud only focus on studying existing stuff. And perfect-ionize techniques before composing.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 22:09:31

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to estebanana)

Wow... I always played in a secret division of my house, fearing the Flamenco Police would hear me play an improvised falseta out of compás and arrest me. But this guys from the Flamenco Bureau of Investigation are not joking around... these people are really strict and they probably have already planted microphones in our houses to supervise our attempts of composing falsetas.
Man... I'm out of this... I've already cut my nails and sold my guitar... I'm not going to Siberia...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 22:18:55

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Ricardo)

:P

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 22:22:01

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to El Kiko)

quote:

that falseta wasnt mine ... i got it from a "friend "' i dont have any ' Learn to play Flamenco in a day' books anymore ...I have been checked a few years ago when the flamenco police came round and I had to play for them......honest ....

Ignorance of the Laws of Flamenco is not a defense.

Book'em Dano. Take him to the station.

You have the right to remain silent,
any non FBI sanctioned flamenco falseta you perform can and will be held against you
by a biased jury of your peers.

Prepare to wear the "finger cuffs".

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 22:41:10

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Ricardo)

I hope there's a statute of limitations on charges like this...........I'd hate for my rodrigo y gabriela days to catch up with me

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 22:44:36

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

And this is why I even don´t like it when some beginner comes up with .."hey I composed xy..listen". Because I could either tell em..guy..stop it..ear bleeding alarm...or I have to lie. I dislike both scenarios. Beginners shoud only focus on studying existing stuff. And perfect-ionize techniques before composing.

You just went up in rank to First Field Lieutenant. Excellent. Print out the requisite citation forms and begin quashing beginners efforts and leave no beginner unscarred.

You're new Division Chief in charge of under 16 years of age guitarists. Go forth and cite newbies using extreme prejudice. Submit a full monthly report on 1-31-13

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 22:47:50

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Leñador)

What's going on here. I already posted a valid checklist. The only point missing is 8) upload to foro and await response. I'm waiting.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 22:48:42

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

I'd hate for my rodrigo y gabriela days to catch up with me

We know about your 'R&G' fascination and your past. Lenador.

Watch your step, because we've been watching you. I've reviewed your dossier personally.

Nothing gets past the FBI, and the Spanish Inquisition trembles at hearing our name.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 22:49:34

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to bursche)

quote:

What's going on here. I already posted a valid checklist. The only point missing is 8) upload to foro and await response. I'm waiting.

Agent Smith will speak with you in the other room. We know you are using the screen name "Neo".

So Neo, you feel you are qualified to say your checklist is valid? I'm willing to work with you Neo, if you cooperate we can wipe the slate clean, give you a new beginning.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 22:54:31

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Nothing gets past the FBI, and the Spanish Inquisition trembles at hearing our name.

Good god you have sway over the Segovia police ???

Maybe you can help me. They came to my door the other day on their dark horses. They had heard I had blasphemed their undead lord. One of them tried to bite off the nail on my pinkie.

After much torture I broke down and told them that I could help them to take down Vladimir Mikulka. As a reward they would allow me to keep teaching.

But the lies are catching up with me and I think my handler now suspects that I don't really know Mikulka very well.

I need a way out.

Harold Pendel.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 23:04:54

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Watch your step, because we've been watching you. I've reviewed your dossier personally.

10-4, nothing but firmly established flamenco puro from here on out.

_____________________________

\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 23:08:45

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

Nothing gets past the FBI, and the Spanish Inquisition trembles at hearing our name.

I'm noticing some inefficiency in this FBI operations... I've just checked youtube and those flamingo players are still there. Why aren't those videos deleted yet?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 23:14:36

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FredGuitarraOle

quote:

Nothing gets past the FBI, and the Spanish Inquisition trembles at hearing our name.

I'm noticing some inefficiency in this FBI operations... I've just checked youtube and those flamingo players are still there. Why aren't those videos deleted yet?

Not enough personnel.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 23:16:08

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

Good god you have sway over the Segovia police ???

Who?

You mean those street punks who we bust playing minor Classical composers such as Lipshitz and Buxtahudoo?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 23:22:18

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

quote:

I'm noticing some inefficiency in this FBI operations... I've just checked youtube and those flamingo players are still there. Why aren't those videos deleted yet?

Those are FBI plant videos, watch them and see what happens. You might disappear from the Foro someday. Accidental? Perhaps, perhaps not.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 23:23:58

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

quote:

Good god you have sway over the Segovia police ???

Who?

You mean those street punks who we bust playing minor Classical composers such as Lipshitz and Buxtahudoo?

Once they were mighty kings. One fell off his horse (something to do with windmills) now his steed has wings, like a tampon.

Beware.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2013 23:26:04

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

quote:

I'm noticing some inefficiency in this FBI operations... I've just checked youtube and those flamingo players are still there. Why aren't those videos deleted yet?

Those are FBI plant videos, watch them and see what happens. You might disappear from the Foro someday. Accidental? Perhaps, perhaps not.

Damn... that's smooth! I really underestimated the effectiveness of the FBI. Now I'm sure you have absolutely everything under control.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2013 0:00:11

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Ricardo)

Hey Guys

WOW!

I was abducted by the SLA yesterday and they took over my Foro account and posted all this crazy stuff. I kicked one in the groin and used a cejilla to break the other captors thumb, then I managed to escape.

Be vigilant the Solea Liberation Army is back on the move after lo these thirty years.

You can't be too careful!.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2013 0:30:35

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to fxarzad)

quote:

Hey guys,
I need to know how can i create a flaseta for example in solea?
i know the compas and i've played some solea falseta. but i don't know how do i create one? can anyone help me?

Hello there! Welcome to the Foro. It's Ok we're all friends here, mostly. Welcome to join in.

(Someone should have said that long ago.)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2013 0:34:56

britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

Beginners should not create because they simply couldnt play anything enjoyable anyways..,

Bueno!

Surely this must be the most sensible answer to the original poster's question. And also makes the most sense of much of what has gone on here.

Let's face it; does a virtuoso flamenco guitarist really sit down just to deliberatley 'compose' a falseta. I don't know, but I doubt it.

I would think in most cases the 'composing' probably happens almost accidentally, while doodling around with ideas within a certain palo. And I think we are all guilty of doing that at some time. But I'd bet in most cases its just a variant on something we have already heard from one of the 'old masters'.

And the question to ask ourselves is: " is this really better than the original"?

Or are we just trying to do something different, for the sake of it. . .?

Creativitiy is more than just being different. . .

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2013 1:30:27

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

Good god you have sway over the Segovia police ???

Maybe you can help me. They came to my door the other day on their dark horses. They had heard I had blasphemed their undead lord. One of them tried to bite off the nail on my pinkie.

After much torture I broke down and told them that I could help them to take down Vladimir Mikulka. As a reward they would allow me to keep teaching.

But the lies are catching up with me and I think my handler now suspects that I don't really know Mikulka very well.

I need a way out.

Harold Pendel.

We are watching. Nothing escapes our notice. Soon....

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2013 2:18:23

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: how to create a falseta (in reply to britguy)

quote:

ORIGINAL: britguy

quote:

Beginners should not create because they simply couldnt play anything enjoyable anyways..,

Bueno!

Surely this must be the most sensible answer to the original poster's question. And also makes the most sense of much of what has gone on here.

Let's face it; does a virtuoso flamenco guitarist really sit down just to deliberatley 'compose' a falseta. I don't know, but I doubt it.

I would think in most cases the 'composing' probably happens almost accidentally, while doodling around with ideas within a certain palo. And I think we are all guilty of doing that at some time. But I'd bet in most cases its just a variant on something we have already heard from one of the 'old masters'.

And the question to ask ourselves is: " is this really better than the original"?

Or are we just trying to do something different, for the sake of it. . .?

Creativitiy is more than just being different. . .

I take it that you wait till the fruit has ripened before you plant a tree.

Contained in your post I see both a council of despair and, unvoiced, a false dichotomy.

If the post is a joke then ok.

If it isn't then what purpose do you think it serves ?

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2013 2:22:12