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Here some resourses i used as my best practises for understanding the compas of Solea:
In the end of the following video they start to clap the basic compas for Solea in a very understandable way (starting at 5:30):
part 2:
part 3:
part 4:
Then what i started doing and still do a lot, is listening to some more traditional sounding soleares en do the palmas pattern through all the track. Here some tracks:
One thing I haven't quite grasped yet, when playing bulerias and finishing a phrase on 4, does it mean if you play compas with accents on 12,3,6,8,10, then after you finish on 4 you begin the compas all over again from 12 and continue with accents like described before? I suppose it can be done also with accents on every second or every third beat which would obviously mean continuing in the same fashion, but with these five accents I suppose the compas starts all over again, is this common in bulerias?
One thing I haven't quite grasped yet, when playing bulerias and finishing a phrase on 4, does it mean if you play compas with accents on 12,3,6,8,10, then after you finish on 4 you begin the compas all over again from 12 and continue with accents like described before? I suppose it can be done also with accents on every second or every third beat which would obviously mean continuing in the same fashion, but with these five accents I suppose the compas starts all over again, is this common in bulerias?
Are you referring to a specific part of the falseta's i gave or to ending on 4 in general? .....the *-*-*- pulse can be applied as a neutral pattern (half compas) and if a melody really ends on the last dot that's called 10 (even if it is 4) after witch you continue with golpe (11) and new events starting on 12. But my example did not include such an ending. The first half of the alzapua falseta (bottom of my post) only interrupts the melody on 4 (fallowed by golpe on 5, upstroke on 6 and the usual treatment of 7,8,9,10,11. After the golpe on 11 you repeat the whole set and then you continue with the second half annotated on the top of that post. That one runs all to way to 4 but still doesn't end on 4 because the end is that final picado that round things up to 10 (fallowed by a golpe on 11 to link to the next adventure starting on 12).
I hope this answers your question. I might be out of sight a couple of days/weeks because i'm extremely busy with my IFFR preparations right now (have to study/value 300 movies the upcoming week to select/schedule the 60 movies i'm hoping to see during the 10 day festival).
I was referring to ending on 4 in general. Meaning if it's done in half compas the continuation is clear. But if one playes in full 12 beat compas with accents on 12,3,6,8 and 10, when ending on 4, does the following 6 become the twelve and continues with accents like mentioned before? Or can ending on 4 be done only when playing in half compas?
I was referring to ending on 4 in general. Meaning if it's done in half compas the continuation is clear. But if one playes in full 12 beat compas with accents on 12,3,6,8 and 10, when ending on 4, does the following 6 become the twelve and continues with accents like mentioned before? Or can ending on 4 be done only when playing in half compas?
Have a nice festival
There is no "ending on 4"...it's always considered 10. IN other words 12,3,6,8,10, 12,(7)8,(9),10 12 etc....
Hence IT MAKES NO SENSE TO COUNT...so STOP and learn compas patterns....not alzapua falsetas...sheeeeeeesh.
Here: 12,1,2,3,4,5 = the continous phrasing. You can link/loop/repeat this feeling indefinately. 6,7,8,9,10, (11),= the ENDING phrase. You can also link this feeling back to back as you want. You can mix and match the two phrases, or OVER LAY THEM ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.
The reason is because the 12 phrase is an illusion of squarness.... best to not ingrain it at all lest you become a square yourself.
Here: 12,1,2,3,4,5 = the continous phrasing. You can link/loop/repeat this feeling indefinately. 6,7,8,9,10, (11),= the ENDING phrase. You can also link this feeling back to back as you want. You can mix and match the two phrases, or OVER LAY THEM ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.
The reason is because the 12 phrase is an illusion of squarness.... best to not ingrain it at all lest you become a square yourself.
thanks I appreciate the explanation. I suppose when considering like that, beats are accented in a free manner and occasionally doing the basic 12,3,6,8,10, every third or every second beat bulerias accenting?
Can you please clarify what do you mean over laying them on top of each other?
Also if you(or anyone) have any links where I could learn compas patterns I would appreciate as I don't know where to look for them.
Aight, some simple bulerias compas patterns/variations or what have you. I just sat down and did this real quick first take 'cus I have to leave in a min. I can think of a few more already, maybe when I have time I'll make a nice one. Ask questions, or talk S about my compas, either way I'll accommodate you.
Aight, some simple bulerias compas patterns/variations or what have you. I just sat down and did this real quick first take 'cus I have to leave in a min. I can think of a few more already, maybe when I have time I'll make a nice one. Ask questions, or talk S about my compas, either way I'll accommodate you.
Ok The ONE PATTERN at 1:30 is close to the base pattern you should deal with. Not exact cuz you need to start it as an upstroke and deal with the final rasgueado too (ami-i up it should be). And I WOULD REPEAT IT OVER AND OVER actually...and I do. THat is the more authentic pattern of the bunch you got going on honestly.
Here is some buleria with the same palmas loop I linked to. Forget about the falseta I play, check out the first couple compases of basic compas:
Here too the basic compas strum between the falsetas is your focus. GET THAT STUFF down:
I have been practicing the bulerias "base phrases" and variations of them bulerias for couple months now, thanks for giving some new ideas. What I still can't do is feel my inner compas very well, I just sort of play them.
This brings me to think that should I base the inner compas on knowing on which beat every falseta and phrase begins and ends or should I always kind of automatically sense/feel when the beat 10(and others) is done is in compas? Or use foot tapping as a guide?
Especially when later on practicing mixing order of playing phrases and falsetas(flamenco improvising). How do you guys know where you are in compas and how have you practiced it?
Also, when finishing a phrase or falseta, I suppose I understood correct that the accents always will be on 6-8-10?
Ok The ONE PATTERN at 1:30 is close to the base pattern you should deal with. Not exact cuz you need to start it as an upstroke and deal with the final rasgueado too (ami-i up it should be). And I WOULD REPEAT IT OVER AND OVER actually...and I do. THat is the more authentic pattern of the bunch you got going on honestly.
Duly noted Obi Wan!
I knew if I post a bad video we could get some good ones outta Ricardo.
quote:
I have been practicing the bulerias "base phrases" and variations of them bulerias for couple months now, thanks for giving some new ideas. What I still can't do is feel my inner compas very well, I just sort of play them.
It's going to take more then a couple months of playing the base phrased to internalize 12 beats
I have been practicing the bulerias "base phrases" and variations of them bulerias for couple months now, thanks for giving some new ideas. What I still can't do is feel my inner compas very well, I just sort of play them.
This brings me to think that should I base the inner compas on knowing on which beat every falseta and phrase begins and ends or should I always kind of automatically sense/feel when the beat 10(and others) is done is in compas? Or use foot tapping as a guide?
Especially when later on practicing mixing order of playing phrases and falsetas(flamenco improvising). How do you guys know where you are in compas and how have you practiced it?
Also, when finishing a phrase or falseta, I suppose I understood correct that the accents always will be on 6-8-10?
thanks
Don't know how many times I am gonna type it but YOU DON"T COUNT IT YOU FEEL IT. You play with confidence knowing because you feel where you are because the base phrases are supposedly ingrained and naturally felt inside. Foot can be a guide for the pulse and can be used different ways but only if you feel a pulse to begin with. If you dont' that's why you use a metronome to practice. if you don't understand HOW TO USE a metronome, you need a teacher or someone to give you feedback.
The end is not always accented or even felt 6-8-10. There is a way 9 can be the focus of an ending phrase and more complex synchopated things. Understanding 9 as an ending starts to get at how you can overlay the two halves of the 12 beat compas and you realize finally there never was 12 anyway it was all much simpler. But if you have ingrained the groove and know tons of patterns then it won't matter. Your problem is you keep intellectuallizing this thing and also that 12,3,6,8,10 is the be all end all of compas phrasing. You have to keep playing the rudiments until it is natural and grooving.
Thanks. Do you mean through getting the "base phrases" into the spine one can apply the pulse and groove automatically to falsetas and any playing situation that comes in the style?
I have been practicing with metronome and working a bit with flamenco master program.
I remember how in one youtube video this flamenco teacher was talking about of something like "ritmo del tierra", and there was the bulerias in simple three beat pulse. I suppose this is something I have to begin with, also.
I really appreciate all your help Ric(and of course everyone elses) and sorry if I don't get things after they're mentioned the first time, but these things are completely new to me. But now I'm slowly grasping these compas matters.
One more thing(at least): I suppose 11 is always there after the ending on 10, even when it's most often not even played?
Do you mean through getting the "base phrases" into the spine one can apply the pulse and groove automatically to falsetas and any playing situation that comes in the style?
Exactly, eventually a 11 beat phrase will sounds short to you and a 13 beat phrase will sound long, you will know without thinking where 12 is. There's no way to think your way out of doing and hearing it over and over probably for years.
Ricardo, would you say the other patterns I have are illegal or just not authentic? If so I've got a bone to pick with a couple peeps........
Ricardo, would you say the other patterns I have are illegal or just not authentic? If so I've got a bone to pick with a couple peeps........
I would say it's about interpretation...there are some details that have slipped by with golpe, dynamics, how high up and down you need to strum with index, flicking not flicking, rasgueado etc. My guess is you were shown and got the gist but without the details it's just not right somehow.
I would say it's about interpretation...there are some details that have slipped by with golpe, dynamics, how high up and down you need to strum with index, flicking not flicking, rasgueado etc. My guess is you were shown and got the gist but without the details it's just not right somehow.
10-4, I gotta pay for a skype lesson with you at some point. So do you Tele!
I would say it's about interpretation...there are some details that have slipped by with golpe, dynamics, how high up and down you need to strum with index, flicking not flicking, rasgueado etc. My guess is you were shown and got the gist but without the details it's just not right somehow.
10-4, I gotta pay for a skype lesson with you at some point. So do you Tele!
And thanks to me wasting time typing all that stuff to you guys this morning, I MISSED a skype appoinment!!!
Don't know how many times I am gonna type it but YOU DON"T COUNT IT YOU FEEL IT.
What Ricardo already said pretty much sums it all, however it is not easy to feel the compás when you are starting out. I feel your pain Tele, I had the same confusion and doubt. It takes a lot of time, but eventually you will get there. I will tell you how I learned. It worked for me and maybe it will work for you too.
I started with the first bulerías from the Juan Martin method. I listened to it hundreds of times while counting at the same time, first with palmas and then with the guitar. You need to understand what your doing, don't just memorize the whole thing. This bulerias have 3 or 4 different paterns. Learn them one by one and when you are sure you understand them just practise, practise, and practise. Eventualy they will start to feel natural and you can mix them however you want, as long as you keep the compás correct. Then you need to learn some falsetas. For now, it is easier if you know exactly at which beat of the compás the falseta starts and ends. The picado falseta from the method is pretty simple to play and it fits in compás in a very common way: it starts at beat 12 and ends at beat 6. Anyways, that's just how I learned it.
After learning and UNDERSTANDING this one, I started learning more and more patterns and falsetas. Eventualy I started feeling the compás and didn't need to count it anymore. This is just like learning a new language: first you got to learn some basic lines, then you will learn vocabulary and expressions, and at some point you will get fluent with it.
You need to look for patterns and falsetas on youtube and learn the ones you LIKE. That's when the fun part of the journey begins. I remember this bulerias from Mezzo were one of the first I learned on youtube. I really like them. They have simple patterns and falsetas, but really cool ones! Check it out:
Henrik also has a good video on bulerías compas:
Well... I've already written too much... I hope I helped! Good luck!
Thanks. I've practiced juan martins bulerias from the book and from the video. And I really like them. I suppose I have a start.
Great! Then you just need to learn new patterns and falsetas. Every new one you learn will have a different trick in the compás and it's by learning all those details that you will get fluent with it.
By the way check this guy out, he is also from Finland. Maybe he lives near you and can give you some lessons.
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