Not bassie Flamenco guitar

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Agustin Castellon Campos

Posts: 24
Joined: Dec. 23 2012

Not bassie Flamenco guitar

Hi. I would like to know if anyone can help me know some flamenco guitars that are not bassie. I hate the fact that many expect and associate flamenco guitars ( Cypress, Sycamore ... ) to produce loude voice and also bassie sound. I've not played many fine brands but tried Antonio Aparicio, Alhambra, Almansa, Manuel Rodriguez and disappointingly they have all been bassie. I'm looking for sharp and clean voice yet it's back and sides are flamenco.
Thanks in advance.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2013 1:08:16

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Agustin Castellon Campos)

In a proper flamenco guitar all the aspects of the tone should be balanced. But it means also investing some money into the guitar. If you want somehow unusually non-bassy sounding guitar you might have to speak with a luthier how he can make it less bassy through aspects in construction

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2013 13:52:40

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Agustin Castellon Campos)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Agustin Castellon Campos

Hi. I would like to know if anyone can help me know some flamenco guitars that are not bassie. I hate the fact that many expect and associate flamenco guitars ( Cypress, Sycamore ... ) to produce loude voice and also bassie sound. I've not played many fine brands but tried Antonio Aparicio, Alhambra, Almansa, Manuel Rodriguez and disappointingly they have all been bassie. I'm looking for sharp and clean voice yet it's back and sides are flamenco.
Thanks in advance.

The Francisco Navarro "Reyes style" flamenco guitar is about as balanced and percussive as any guitar that I know of, without too much money.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2013 18:17:42

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Agustin Castellon Campos)

Count Bassie was a pianist. Charles Mingus was a was bassist.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2013 20:39:33

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Agustin Castellon Campos)

Um, I believe that would be Count Basie that you're referring to.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2013 20:50:43

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to C. Vega)

Oh did my keyboard stick on "s" too bad.

I worked backstage at the Monterrey Jazz Festival in the late 80's, the Bas(s)ie band played. The Count was not at the helm then, but Big Joe Williams sang.

Contact George at Berkeley Musical Instrument exchange. He always has about 50 guitars on hand. No waiting for a guy to build you a guitar. The family that builds his line were trained by Abel Garcia, one of the most capable of the Mexican luthiers. The instruments they are making now are pretty hard to beat at any price until you go up over 3000.00 to 4000.00.

Dealers on the foro who carry affordable guitars: Contact Ramon AKA Prominent Critic.

Oddly enough Yamaha makes a pretty good entry level guitar in the 500.00 range. I've played them and cannot really find anything bad to say for an under 1000.00 instrument.

Cordoba makes an even sounding guitar, they are usually a tiny bit sluggish, but not boomy and loud or shrill. A good bet to investigate if you want a guitar that is difficult to over play.

I've played some Chinese cheapos from eBay that were awesome considering they cost 300.00 shipped from China......A friend of mine who is pro bought one and played it to teach all the luthiers a lesson in humility....until it back fired and he wanted his Brazilian Negra back.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2013 21:03:38

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Agustin Castellon Campos)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Agustin Castellon Campos

Hi. I would like to know if anyone can help me know some flamenco guitars that are not bassie. I hate the fact that many expect and associate flamenco guitars ( Cypress, Sycamore ... ) to produce loude voice and also bassie sound. I've not played many fine brands but tried Antonio Aparicio, Alhambra, Almansa, Manuel Rodriguez and disappointingly they have all been bassie. I'm looking for sharp and clean voice yet it's back and sides are flamenco.
Thanks in advance.

Sobrinos de esteso cypress the closest to what you want. Conde Hermanos comes close and there are some others, but most guitars have some bass depending on how they build the thing I guess. I still don't get it myself. A thin body style such as cordoba is also not bassy, but unfortunately the quality of the trebles and overall voice is not in the same calibur as Sobrinos.

The instrument that Anders builds is also well balanced in the mid range.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2013 14:25:56

Agustin Castellon Campos

Posts: 24
Joined: Dec. 23 2012

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Agustin Castellon Campos)

Thanks for the help of all guys. In fact I'm lookig for the guitars under 5000 $, As well as its accessibility for purchasig across the world. In my current situation I don't think I could customise my guitar, speaking to the luthiers.

Francisco Navarro guitars can not be easily found ( If I'm not making a mistake )

About Yamaha, I've not tried its Flamencos, but its classical yes, and interestingly the only classical ( Rosewood - Cedar ) that I have ever liked the sound ( Not bassie + Sustain too many seconds ) was its CG192C though it was far cheaper than its spanish counterparts ( Since my preference is rather odd ). So I would go for testing its flamencos.

Concerning Cordoba, it's been a long time I've been thinking of its classical. As at the same time I'm lookig for a good classical too. The good point about Cordoba is it's more accessible in different countries. The costs vary from model to model and you have a range of choice. So most probably I would go for Cordoba both classical and Flamenco. Unfortunately it's not available in my country so I'll have to visit Turkey.

I really appreciate if you name the exact models in each brand you think ( Conde Hermanos, Sobrinos de esteso, Anders or any other ) besides the links and additional information if possible.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2013 2:40:51

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Agustin Castellon Campos)

Under 5000 usd and you're thinking about yamaha

You can get a custom built guitar from many of the luthiers of granada for example(for that price)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2013 11:41:24

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to tele)

quote:

Under 5000 usd and you're thinking about yamaha

You can get a custom built guitar from many of the luthiers of granada for example(for that price)

Or how about the luthiers on the Foro, such as Stephen Faulk or Anders?

Cheers,

Bill

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2013 15:22:04

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to BarkellWH)

You might want to try Ramírez, Conde, Bellido...available for < 5000 on the second hand market

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2013 15:32:47

Agustin Castellon Campos

Posts: 24
Joined: Dec. 23 2012

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Agustin Castellon Campos)

As the sound preference is just a matter of taste, it's happened to me that I tried $ 800 guitar but it sounded better to me compared to $ 3000 one. I think that many would agree with me.
Besides, do blieve me that for me it's not possible ordering a custom made guitar while I'm sitting somewhere else in the world, not kowing how the guitar being made sounds, that eventually I might not like it's voice.
In my opinion your suggestion is ok, on the condition that you live in the country that many luthiers work and you monitor what the luthier is making and express your feeling about the sound, customising by the luthiers if possible.
About Ramirez and Conde Hermanos, particularly Ramirez 1AT Flamenco I really want to have a go someday, though it's out of my pocket.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2013 12:18:11

Lorenzo

Posts: 17
Joined: Jun. 15 2007
From: New Mexico, USA

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Agustin Castellon Campos)

If you live close to Tucson, you can give these guitars a try (at Zavaletas). There are a few in your price range. I purchased a Manuel Adalid (Viviana) a few years ago...she has a beautiful voice.

http://zavaletas-guitarras.com/content/index.cfm?action=view&ContentID=21&ParentContentID=0

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2013 12:32:53

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Agustin Castellon Campos)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Agustin Castellon Campos

I hate the fact that many expect and associate flamenco guitars ( Cypress, Sycamore ... ) to produce loude voice and also bassie sound.

Huh?
Not that you are mistaking flamenco with chamber music?
Volume is commonly needed for gigs in typical flamenco environment, and bass ...
Crunchy bass is quite what I know as characteristics of a flamenco guitar. Only that bass mustn´t be mistaken with mush and boom.

As recommended above, if you are looking for a bright shade check out recordings with Anders´guitars ( here on the forum / youtube ). He builds for within your budget and so much more airy than what you can expect in stores for such a money.

I for my part described under tonal charecteristics the following to a luthier, so that he may imagine my preferences:

quote:

# With DEEP growling basses that shall however be well defined and separate ( opposite to boomy / mushy) and not burrying the upper frequency range / trebles in the same time.

To each his own, as you suggested.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2013 13:48:21

Agustin Castellon Campos

Posts: 24
Joined: Dec. 23 2012

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Agustin Castellon Campos)

I do respect for people seeking the current bass in flamenco guitars. ok. But it's not my preference :). And I expect the opposite.
I've played the guitars I mentioned above. I'm not really making a mistake in recognition of the difference between bass and boom or ... . I didn't say it's bad or good. I just want to say that my taste is different.
As you said the luthier MAY ( or may not ) imagine your preference. So my opinion on making custom made guitars "remotely" is still similar to those I've tried to describe in this topic.

Cheers
Aria.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2013 14:34:09

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Agustin Castellon Campos)

http://www.guitarrasjeronimoperez.com/

If you want a guitar that sounds like a Reyes but costs a lot less, buy one of these.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2013 14:56:09

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Morante)

quote:

http://www.guitarrasjeronimoperez.com/

Diego Amaya.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2013 16:05:34

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Agustin Castellon Campos)

First thought was Conde, not the thinner topped ones made by Sanchis.
At a much lower price, Salvador Castillo's guitars are bright and non bassy, Count Basie included. Hopefully you can try out a bunch of guitars until you find what you're looking for.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2013 16:58:36

Agustin Castellon Campos

Posts: 24
Joined: Dec. 23 2012

RE: Not bassie Flamenco guitar (in reply to Agustin Castellon Campos)

Thanks "orsonw " for the video. But the sound quality would not be a good example to recognise.
Sean, Conde ( felipe ) would be my first choise but the price ....
I've heard some samples of Salvador Castillo guitars and the sound is very near to what I say :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2013 0:09:34