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RE: cepero elevator music?
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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 RE: cepero elevator music? (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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Let me spell it out for you Anders: I'm tired of reading so many bitter and unfortunately worded complaints about Spain, Spaniards, Spanish culture and Spanish society, especially from forum members who live here. I'm tired of seeing disrespectful words used to discredit people and things that the poster doesn't like. It's especially irritating when the poster's written Spanish is always full of mistakes and his observations about Spain are, at best, poorly understood stereotypes. It's the same self-appointed entitlement of the flamencólogos, except the flamencólogos look a whole lot better. You know, the "angry young man" attitude might work for a 20-year-old but it's just kind of pathetic in an adult.
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Is it not important to define what flamenco is and what its not?
No, it's not important, but it seems to make some people feel important.
I'll tell you one thing I've noticed among the best flamencos: humility, discretion and respect for others. When they don't like something they usually don't talk about it, and if they must talk about it, they say "I don't like it," instead of "This is crap."
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But please dont call these rumbitas flamenco, because its not. And you know it.
That was classic: You, the artisan, telling Ricardo, the artist, what is and isn't flamenco. How would you feel if someone challenged your authority in similarly arrogant terms?
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Date Jan. 9 2013 10:36:17
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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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RE: cepero elevator music? (in reply to NormanKliman)
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quote:
Let me spell it out for you Anders: I'm tired of reading so many bitter and unfortunately worded complaints about Spain, Spaniards, Spanish culture and Spanish society, especially from forum members who live here. I'm tired of seeing disrespectful words used to discredit people and things that the poster doesn't like. It's especially irritating when the poster's written Spanish is always full of mistakes and his observations about Spain are, at best, poorly understood stereotypes. It's the same self-appointed entitlement of the flamencólogos, except the flamencólogos look a whole lot better. You know, the "angry young man" attitude might work for a 20-year-old but it's just kind of pathetic in an adult.
quote:
Is it not important to define what flamenco is and what its not?
No, it's not important, but it seems to make some people feel important.
I'll tell you one thing I've noticed among the best flamencos: humility, discretion and respect for others. When they don't like something they usually don't talk about it, and if they must talk about it, they say "I don't like it," instead of "This is crap."
quote:
But please dont call these rumbitas flamenco, because its not. And you know it.
That was classic: You, the artisan, telling Ricardo, the artist, what is and isn't flamenco. How would you feel if someone challenged your authority in similarly arrogant terms?
Ahh, finally it came out Norman. Thank you. I like to know where I have people. That was full of bitter anger. They say its healthy to let it out.
Just 1 question:
1) In your opinion, when is a player an artist and when isnt he an artist and how much artist do you have to be in order to have the right to have an opinion about on this flamenco site? Because according to you, I´m not artist enough to express myself about flamenco music on this flamenco forum... Or is it so, that when you´re an artesan, then you cant be an artist?
And finally.... This with the written spanish, what has it to do with everything. Is your written spanish perfect?
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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
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Date Jan. 9 2013 11:30:37
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: cepero elevator music? (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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quote:
That was full of bitter anger. They say its healthy to let it out.
No, it's reasoned criticism. They say it's even healthier to listen to it.
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Just 1 question:
1) In your opinion, when is a player an artist and when isnt he an artist and how much artist do you have to be in order to have the right to have an opinion about on this flamenco site?
Everyone has the right to say what he or she wants. I'm not saying that anyone has to be gracious, especially angry young men.
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Because according to you, I´m not artist enough to express myself about flamenco music on this flamenco forum...
Did I really say that?
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Or is it so, that when you´re an artesan, then you cant be an artist?
You can be better than everyone else in your own mind, if you want to. Whatever keeps you going. It's clear to me that you're an expert on building guitars and other subjects, but playing flamenco guitar is not one of them.
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And finally.... This with the written spanish, what has it to do with everything.
You said just one question. Obviously, if someone has a poor understanding of the language it's very likely that they don't understand other parts of that society. That's fine, but not when that person tries to speak authoritatively about that society. You know, I've already explained this in my preceding post: It's especially irritating when the poster's written Spanish is always full of mistakes and his observations about Spain are, at best, poorly understood stereotypes. What don't you understand in that sentence?
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Is your written spanish perfect?
 I never said it was, and that's not the issue here, unless of course you want to make it an issue. You seem to enjoy asking questions that have nothing to do with the conversation, and you haven't answered the only question in my preceding post.
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Date Jan. 9 2013 12:07:04
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: cepero elevator music? (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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Thats a lie Norman and if your level of Spanish is so fantastic as you believe yourself, then you know that I´m right.
Oh, because you say so? Sorry, but (as I've already said), I hear it on public TV and radio all the time.
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Its like saying idiot in public in English.
Yes, exactly.
I think you're taking this a little too far, Anders. Until that last post of mine, I hadn't "directly insulted" you, as you say, at any point. If you took it that way and if you need to hear it, I'll apologize. But I still think it would make more sense to listen to well reasoned criticism. Your real enemies are never going to give you that.
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Date Jan. 9 2013 13:42:59
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