S. Papas Music

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S. Papas Music

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wedge

Posts: 34
Joined: Jan. 6 2013

S. Papas Music

Hello,
I typically play Spanish and South American pieces, and I've had limited instruction and practice with flamenco. I asked a friend his recommendation for some short, beginner/intermediate flamenco solo pieces and he recommended Sophoclese Papa's short book of 5 - 6 solos pieces; he said they were classic pieces. I enjoy them, and the book includes a series of variations. I would like to present them as authentically as possible, so I have some fairly easy questions:
1. Is this fairly representative of standard flamenco pieces, or can you recommend others?
2. The variations - separate pieces, or should they be played together since they're pretty short?
3. Should I view these pieces as foundations and improvise off them, or are they adequate as written?
Thanks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2013 1:41:53

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: S. Papas Music (in reply to wedge)

I've never seen this book but a quick search says this guy was a classical player so we're not off to a good start on the authenticity tip. I found a version of someone playing the Malaguena on youtube and that sounds like a classical person imitating flamenco, very pretty, but not flamenco......
If you want authentic there's lots out there, books by Dennis Koster, Juan Martin, I think Juan Serrano has a beginner book.
Flamenco is not so much about playing pieces as it is in classical, this solo guitar flamenco business is not really the original idea of flamenco. Guitarists are there to accompany everyone else. I read an interview with Paco Pena where he said he moved to London because there the only people crazy enough to listen to solo guitar. If he was in Spain everyone woulda said, nice playing but where is everybody?
Anyways, you can play solo pieces of course and theres plenty of books out there to show you but make sure there actual flamenco players would be my only advice.

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2013 2:54:22

wedge

Posts: 34
Joined: Jan. 6 2013

RE: S. Papas Music (in reply to Leñador)

Ok, thank you. I will look into those. I have a Juan Serrano book, but I think it's beyond a beginner book. Regarding solo guitar - thanks for the perspective. There aren't people to accompany where I am, so at the moment it's my only option; maybe some day...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2013 3:25:57

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: S. Papas Music (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

I read an interview with Paco Pena where he said he moved to London because there the only people crazy enough to listen to solo guitar. If he was in Spain everyone woulda said, nice playing but where is everybody?

I think this is only partially true, otherwise I doubt there would be so much solo guitar material.

Juan Martin's DVD is good for beginners and advanced players. There are some clips of it on youtube. The book is also good but the DVD's better

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2013 12:10:51

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: S. Papas Music (in reply to wedge)

That Sophocles Papas book is worthless. A good beginner’s book is “An Introduction to Flamenco Guitar,” by Anita Sheer.

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Flamenco-Guitar-Sheer/dp/0769212948/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357485654&sr=8-1&keywords=An+Introduction+to+Flamenco+Guitar

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2013 14:22:31

wedge

Posts: 34
Joined: Jan. 6 2013

RE: S. Papas Music (in reply to Ramon Amira)

To be clear, it's this one:

http://www.spanishguitar.com/Product/1195/101/Flamenco-Solos_Papas,-Sophocles/

Regarding solos, I was thinking of something like this, and I realize this is currently out of my sphere; however, it will give you an idea of what I'm considering:

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2013 14:46:06

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: S. Papas Music (in reply to wedge)

Yes, I know the book. As I said, it’s no use. Get the Anita Sheer book. As for that video, that’s about the last thing you should be thinking about at this stage. You need to first learn the basics.

Ramon

_____________________________

Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2013 15:04:03

wedge

Posts: 34
Joined: Jan. 6 2013

RE: S. Papas Music (in reply to Ramon Amira)

Ok, thanks. Regarding the video - yes, it's where I'd someday like to go, but probably several years from now. I've had some formal instruction but not enough, so I'm starting at beginner level.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2013 16:28:21

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: S. Papas Music (in reply to wedge)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wedge

Hello,
I typically play Spanish and South American pieces, and I've had limited instruction and practice with flamenco. I asked a friend his recommendation for some short, beginner/intermediate flamenco solo pieces and he recommended Sophoclese Papa's short book of 5 - 6 solos pieces; he said they were classic pieces. I enjoy them, and the book includes a series of variations. I would like to present them as authentically as possible, so I have some fairly easy questions:
1. Is this fairly representative of standard flamenco pieces, or can you recommend others?
2. The variations - separate pieces, or should they be played together since they're pretty short?
3. Should I view these pieces as foundations and improvise off them, or are they adequate as written?
Thanks.

1. Absolutely not. I don't recommend any book really, flamenco is based on song forms not "pieces" as you are thinking of them.
2. Again the term variations is correct interms of what flamenco guitar forms are....but Papas was not a flamenco player and didn't know really know any authentic variations. Idea would be that you could "in theory" put any "soleares varations" all mixed together in a random improvised order...so long as they make sense and you use taste (not possible for total zero beginner players until after some years of listening and learning and practicing).
3. THe titles of some of the pieces are authentic form names....that's about all you can use but notes written it would be safe to ignore all.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2013 16:32:53

wedge

Posts: 34
Joined: Jan. 6 2013

RE: S. Papas Music (in reply to wedge)

Things got a little more interesting: I received an evaluation Camps Primera-A blanca yesterday as part of a trade-in deal for one of my concert classicals. Although CGs and flamencos are tangerines and oranges I applied some of the knowledge, etc., I gained from my journey from beginner classicals-to-concert guitars to this first guitar: mainly, I wanted to start with a decent handmade instrument and go from there vs. starting at the beginning. Should be interesting.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2013 22:23:33

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: S. Papas Music (in reply to wedge)

That's great, did you find yourself a good medium for learning the basics?

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2013 22:39:07

wedge

Posts: 34
Joined: Jan. 6 2013

RE: S. Papas Music (in reply to Leñador)

Although the guitar purchase may not reflect it, I'm taking baby steps; so, no. I've been reading the history and "structure" of flamenco to get some background; they were sites suggested on this forum. I do have "Juan Serrano, King of the Flamenco Guitar," and have been listening to the CD to get the feel of it. Regarding the book recommendations in this post, I looked at them but haven't made any purchases. I want to be careful and not veer off into the world of faux flamenco.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2013 2:33:45

wedge

Posts: 34
Joined: Jan. 6 2013

RE: S. Papas Music (in reply to wedge)

So, it's going very well; I haven't seen my classical guitar for months, though. My instructor says I'm coming along fine, and it's very intriguing. I, being the person that is me, am already looking into a better guitar, but hopefully that will be a ways off - I'm not ready yet, but there are things I'm noting I'd like in the next guitar.

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Wedge
Casimiro Lozano 1A
2012 Hermanos Camp Primera A
2013 Ethan Deutsch
2008 Pavan TP-30 Signature Cedar 640 mm (for sale)
2003 Chambers,spruce/Madagascar RW (for sale)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2013 22:57:34