compas (plain and simple)

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Josh

Posts: 44
Joined: Jul. 7 2003

compas (plain and simple)

I have been waiting to start posting real questions until more people get here but im getting bored so here goes. I have asked many questions about compas before but I usually just got directed towards books or got told things I didnt understand. So I want to lay out my understanding of compas and have you guys correct me or expand on it. Currenlty I am working on the allegrias solo from FT and I am pretty much just cleaning it up and speeding it up since I have it memorized. Because it is an allegrias I use the same compas as a solea. I focus on beats 3,6,8,10,12. When I say focus I mean I do golpes on those beats as much as possible and I make it a point to make the notes or chords that happen on those beats stand out. In the entrada I do this by exaggerating(emphasizing and prolonging) the notes that end the first two bars(beats 3 and 6). Through the rest of the piece I do golpes on 3,6,8(occasionally),(I have trouble sometimes with ten because I have to play open e with my thumb as I do it) and 12. Now, I havent had as much time with the allegrias as I have with the soleares so I dont fully feel the nuances. I have noticed though that there is a real emphasis on 3,6, and 12( This could be just Dimitri's style). So, the question I leave to any one nice enough to read this whole post is "am I overanalyzing compas as a solo guitarist or am I simplifying it? The reason I ask this is because there are sections in the pieces I have worked on where golpes happened on the 4th beat and other sections where
chord changes took the place of golpes. Again I thank anyone who has made it this far and I promise your replies will fall on eagerly awaiting ears.
JoshH

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2003 8:13:41

Guest

RE: compas (plain and simple) (in reply to Josh)

Josh

When Alegrias is accompanied, the beats fall on 3, 7,8, 10, 12. !2 is very important.Very often there is an upstroke with 3 and 12, giving the effect of 3 AND, 12 AND. There is also a great deal of syncopation at times, especially in the second half of the compas, where the guitar plays on AND instead of on the beat. This gives more ungency, but its appropraiateness depends on the cante and it should not be overdone.

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2003 9:26:26

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: compas (plain and simple) (in reply to Josh)

Josh,
I think you are probably going overboard with strict adherence to "the numbers" and where and when to use golpe.
Relax a bit and listen to some cante/guitar alegrias and just catch that rhythm.
How you syncopate it and use golpe is really personal style, so long as you stick within the framework.
I can tap my feet 3 6 8 10 12 and play a fast Solea por Bulerias and immediately change to Alegrias without changing foot tapping.
The thing that makes it Alegrias is the major key, the 'bouncy' feel and airy syncopation.
This is exactly what Michael Cho was shown in his school in Sevilla when the teacher clapped out a rhythm and asked the class what it was.
It's worth re-reading that post.

By the way Josh, the Alegrias pattern in FM is fine for the purpose.
Practise along with that and you'll be OK.

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2003 9:59:26

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2003 16:40:06

eslastra

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: compas (plain and simple) (in reply to Guest)

Does anyone know of any websites or publications that show a collection of the various palmas patterns for each palo and styles thereof?

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Eddie Lastra

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2003 18:41:42

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2003 0:11:05

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: compas (plain and simple) (in reply to eslastra)

Eddie;

The best I have come across so far is the audio cassette tape from Paco Sevilla, called "Ritmos Flamencos".

Guess what? Paco now has a web site!

http://sevillapress.netfirms.com/

Good material! By the way he lives in San Diego. He played for many years in "Old Town", one of my favorite areas of San Diego.

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2003 0:14:11

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2003 0:45:16

eslastra

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: compas (plain and simple) (in reply to Guest)

Andy,

Thanks, BTW I sent you a private email but your SPAM blocker nabbed it

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Eddie Lastra

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2003 6:39:32

eslastra

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: compas (plain and simple) (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Tom,

Thanks, you're always a wealth of information. I have Paco's books, but I didn't know his tapes were still available. I'll check them out.

I first heard about Paco Sevilla during my lessons with Mariano. At the time he had just published 'Jaleo' magazine (remember that?). I got a complimentary 1st issue that featured Donn Pohren and flamenco in Moron. I continued subscription until the they shut down sometime in the mid '80's. At the time that was one of the very few sources of good flamenco information.

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Eddie Lastra

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2003 7:08:49

Josh

Posts: 44
Joined: Jul. 7 2003

RE: compas (plain and simple) (in reply to Josh)

Thanks Andy and everyone else for there help

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2003 20:41:29

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2003 20:51:47

Josh

Posts: 44
Joined: Jul. 7 2003

RE: compas (plain and simple) (in reply to Josh)

Thats funny I was just looking for it and wondering if I was missing something. Alls well I look forward to it and I think it would be fun to try and work with. So, thanks in advance
JoshH

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2003 21:11:29

Fergusito

Posts: 206
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: UK

RE: compas (plain and simple) (in reply to Josh)

I find learning Flamenco and listeniong to people play who have been told about the accents and always to emphasise them that the mausic sounds very macanical

. It tyakes a lot of listening and playing against a click or loop (or if your lucky enough with plamas) to understand how flamenco compas fits together. Its not as simple as going 123456789101112. There are remates and veriations that make your playing complete and this is the real challenge any guitarist learning flamenco faces.
Fergus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 21 2003 10:43:06