Frustrating Times

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Frustrating Times

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Stu

Posts: 2536
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

Frustrating Times

Hi guys and girls

I've recently found myself becoming rather frustrated. Not with my technique or lack of knowledge etc but with the dance classes I play for.

A little background.....

I started playing for dancers about 3/4 years ago. I got in touch with some teachers and offered my services for free. I began playing for one of the teachers twice a week and still do so now. I even play for her fortnightly class too as well as paid gigs, workshops and student performances. I'm also getting paid up now for the classes which is great.

All of this from nothing really and its felt like a progression all the time...

until now.

I have learnt a hell of a lot form this experience and still have a lot to learn but something is starting to bug me about the classes and I think I've figured it out.

90% of the students don't seem give a ****!!

I remember the first couple of years of learning the guitar... It took me a while to get 'addicted'...I was a bit like "whatever, ill just learn this technique and not that one" or "i just wanna play solo and don't like baile or cante" then something happened and I wanted it all and couldn't get enough of listening, learning, playing studying, talking and thinking of flamenco.

The classes are beginners and improvers and most of the students are of that standard and perhaps they haven't got the "bug" yet and perhaps they never will

Every week in class it seems we have to spend too much time going over the same steps because everyone has forgotten them from the week before. If only they would take a half hour in the middle of the week to go over the stuff at home and surely it would sink in more. every week the teacher says "so did you check the email of the videos i sent with the steps?" or "did you see the link I sent you to the bata de cola video" etc etc and the answers are always the same...."ooh no sorry, I haven't checked my email for ages" or "oh no I forgot" the same answers every week and frankly its infuriating!!!!

It seems like the only ones who give a **** are me and the teacher. one of the classes has lots of older ladies in who do it for the choreography and the nice dresses and shawls and just for something to do and I know its too much to expect them to love flamenco as much as me but its grinding me down.

today the teacher moved all the students round so they weren't facing the mirrors which meant i was playing behind them and couldn't really hear the teachers steps. I was playing some fairly basic bulerias but it was a nightmare cos all i could hear was like a stampede of buffalo and i really realised how much these dancers hadnt learned.
It was just horrid and made me sad.

Do i need to step up to an intermediate or advanced class? I have a feeling after an initial period of being a bit nervous and a bit crap I'd be much happier and learning more.

While I do like playing basic compas and simple versions of palos which is great for me its does get rather boring, particularly if theres no magic between guitar and dancer because their steps are so sloppy.

I sometimes feel that some of my progress is suffering due to this tho..

Any thoughts or similar experiences??
thanks for listening

Stu

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2012 0:09:27

Munin

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

RE: Frustrating Times (in reply to Stu)

Playing for beginner dance classes is a nightmare. On the other hand...I think we as guitar players have to understand that for some people, flamenco may just be a little hobby on the side, just something you do once a week to blow off steam after work. I think that is especially true for female dance students...in my experience a lot of these people have very little or only passing interest in flamenco itself. For them it's just physical exercise that could as well be exchanged with dance classes of some other kind, or yoga, or whatever else.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2012 0:18:30

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1891
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Frustrating Times (in reply to Stu)

Stu, you definitely need to step up...give the intermediates a try, but in the long run you won't want to work with anyone else but advanced students (unless youre paid of course)...they are the ones who have already put in the years and stuck with flamenco, they often know the compáses too :) - and more importantly they're usually starting to figure out the structures by themselves and start to improvise stuff...

Typically those who go to get these classes have no clue about flamenco, except that the clothes are pretty and you don't need a ballet background...they just want to feel good about themselves and do something in their free time...it's all fine, but usually 90% of them drop out pretty soon...

You're going to have more fun with the advanced ladies, and they will appreciate you a lot more too! Also they tend to practice and listen to flamenco as well...

I stopped going to classes a while ago, they don't pay you here and there's only so much you can learn in these classes...if they pay me i still go sometimes but nowadays I enjoy working with those who teach these classes and maybe some of their best students...and i'm busier than ever in flamenco!

Seek out those who also have the bug...you'll give a lot to each other and form lasting friendships as well...don't bother with the beginners if you don't have to, they'll do very fine with their compás tracks until they step up a level...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2012 0:27:23

Dave K

Posts: 155
Joined: Mar. 29 2006

RE: Frustrating Times (in reply to Stu)

Well, as Richard said moving up to more expierienced dancers will help a lot. The better the dancer the easier it is to play for them. It's easy when you play for just your teacher, right? It sounds to me like your teacher needs to at times, (Like when the dancers turned their backs to the mirror) to step in and do some forcefull palmas to keep things on track.

The best thing that happened to me was to find a teacher who also sings letras...It gave structure to flamenco that didn't exist with teachers that just do meaningless (To me) dance choreography. I don't know if anybody else has worked with dance teachers unfamiliar with letras, but that in itself can be a nightmare.

Cheers,
Dave

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2012 3:53:24

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: Frustrating Times (in reply to Dave K)

I've done a few adult education classes in London over the last few years in a number of different things. My observations is that 90% of the class don't give a crap, and by the end of the terms (eg 12 weeks) there'd be 10% of the original class size left. Which even for the class itself makes things pretty terrible.

For example a Creative Writing Class I'm doing right now at City Lit had 7 people attend, when in the first there were 32 students!

There's a small chance that the frustrations with the class are kind of endemic in adult education in London from my experiences anyway...

I hope it gets better though...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2012 11:45:26

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: Frustrating Times (in reply to Munin)

quote:

I think we as guitar players have to understand that for some people, flamenco may just be a little hobby on the side, just something you do once a week to blow off steam after work.

Exactly, the majority of these women don't even practice during the week, which is why they have to repeat everything.

No point to be frustrated, you just have to accept reality of what beginner classes are. Once you understand this you will know you have to move on like others have said, the level 2 students is good but level 3 students even better, they work hard.
I imagine that if you had access to a top teacher, that her beginner level students would be more serious, the class size would be much smaller, but that's probably not possible.

Oh, and I am impressed you have lasted 9 months, because I got bored of that after going to about 4 classes. I figured my time could be better spent practicing, after all an hour class takes about 2 hours of your time!!! Instead I started working directly with level 3 dancers, and I am learning through that... one palos at a time.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2012 12:59:29

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Frustrating Times (in reply to Stu)

quote:

It seems like the only ones who give a **** are me and the teacher. one of the classes has lots of older ladies in who do it for the choreography and the nice dresses and shawls and just for something to do and I know its too much to expect them to love flamenco as much as me but its grinding me down.

reality check! yeah, that's what it's like I'm afraid!

definitely if you can find a higher level class go for it

otherwise you can stop trying to be the drummer beating out the compás, and play more falsetas etc., and if they don't like it, tell them they should be dancing to their own internalised compás! maybe that will push them up a notch or two. The teacher might have to give more palmas, or split the class with half doing palmas while the other half dances and then swapping roles, that also will push them forward a bit.

another idea is to get a guitar buddy to play the classes with you, and work out accompaniments to each others falsetas so that one of you is keeping compás all the time, that can be a lot of fun!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2012 19:44:03

estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Frustrating Times (in reply to Stu)

quote:

I sometimes feel that some of my progress is suffering due to this tho..

Any thoughts or similar experiences??
thanks for listening

Playing for a stampede is not fun and it's dulling your compas and ear. I would say either find level that challenges you into new territory with dancers or play by yourself and work on other flamenco things for a while. But I would stop playing for beginners classes unless you need the extra money.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2012 19:56:38

val

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007
From: London

RE: Frustrating Times (in reply to Stu)

quote:

Do i need to step up to an intermediate or advanced class? I have a feeling after an initial period of being a bit nervous and a bit crap I'd be much happier and learning more.

If it's just income you're after - take what you can get, but certainly don't hesitate to do intermediate/advanced classes if the opportunity comes your way! You'll learn a lot from a decent dance teacher and will be able to apply what you know with more experienced students.

Have you got to know any of the dance students? If it's the experience you're looking for, maybe one or two of the better ones might be up for a get-together where you can push yourselves. Who knows, you might even find yourselves forming your own performance group if you can get past the mafia.

quote:

...older ladies in who do it for the choreography and the nice dresses and shawls and just for something to do and I know its too much to expect them to love flamenco as much as me ...

Some of us love flamenco as much as you do. I AM that lady, but sadly am getting past it now!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2012 22:00:03

Stu

Posts: 2536
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Frustrating Times (in reply to val)

Thanks for your replies everyone. some interesting points and some confirmations of things I was thinking to be true.

I definitely think I will be looking to push on with some higher level classes next year.

I have just returned from class today and I must say I felt a bit bad after slamming some of those dancers on here. Today we did a kind of mini end of year performance for the head of dance department. (Solea, Tientos, Siguiriyas) and all the dancers were surprisingly (relatively) tight with their rhythm. it was all rather enjoyable!

quote:

Oh, and I am impressed you have lasted 9 months

9 months? me? Its been nearly 4 years! And I've stuck at it because there have been different dances every year so Ive continued learning and probably still would albeit slowly.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2012 15:20:27

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Frustrating Times (in reply to Stu)

Everyone has summed it up pretty well but just for more reinforcement.
The beginners classes I've done did generally have the feel that a lot of the girls there were there because it looked slightly more interesting to them then jazzercise class.
I started playing with an advanced class a couple months ago and it's night and day. The enjoyment factor goes way up, I was getting slightly discouraged after a year of beginners, I don't know that I could do 4 years without the advanced class to offset it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2012 15:30:22