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Transcribing: how do you figure out weird tunings?   You are logged in as Guest
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turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

Transcribing: how do you figure out ... 
For those who learn off of records: what's your strategy for figuring out some of the unusual modern tunings?

I don't mean dropped D, or Rondena tuning. I'm talking about things like the tuning for Pinonate (EADGBbD).

Thanks
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 15 2012 22:17:44
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to turnermoran) 
generally i stay away from trying to transcribe too weird a tunings, sounds like so much work and so much room for errors...


Ive never tried it so i couldn't tell you if its the best solution, ..... it would probably be helpful to find and transcribe the base chords first, probably use a software and slow it down as much as possible, do note by note...if the note feels natural to reach great, use it in the cord if not...start tuning, up or down depending where the note is (until you bring the note that you couldn't reach closer)...you will know if you got the first chord right cause every other chord should correspond with the audio without any more need to tune

that will possibly, helpfully give you a clearer indication of what is left alone and what is tuned differently....

once u got that...would be the same as transcribing anything else



its the kind of piece id just skip transcribing, i associate it with almost trying to guess a 9 digit password combination ..,..

EDIT

(even as i finished writing this and i am reading it back to myself I am still not sure it makes any sense and get you the result )....you must really like this piece

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2012 0:44:33
 
rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to turnermoran) 
If there's a video, watch it. If not, listen to open strings that ring. It takes more time, but you'll get it eventually...

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2012 1:04:10
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to rombsix) 
quote:

If not, listen to open strings that ring. It takes more time, but you'll get it eventually...



how would you determine whats open in an audio of a totally unfamiliar tuning ?


but it is a great idea !! if you are lucky enough to get some open strings that you recognize, a lot quicker and safer than my idea

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2012 1:07:46
 
rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to Florian) 
quote:

how would you determine whats open in an audio of a totally unfamiliar tuning ?


You listen carefully, and you can tell... When strings ring in a particular way, you realize they are being played open. When a note is played, you can tell if it is being played on a nylon string or on a metal-wound string. The context of a passage or series of notes helps too. When a chord is impossible to finger in a way to identically replicate the sound on the audio (after many, many attempts and fingerings), it brings up a red flag.

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2012 1:19:47
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to rombsix) 
makes sense i guess

...the context wouldn't be much help to you unless you were sure you were in the right tuning already i would think

i don't know i gave myself a headache just trying to imagine this this is like transcribing x5 ...transcribing on steroids...at least if i had an indication of what palo it was and was one of the previously done tunings ok...but just blindly trying to figure something out with no direction sounds too much work for me :-))

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2012 1:24:19
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to turnermoran) 
quote:

I'm talking about things like the tuning for Pinonate (EADGBbD).


Video is prefered. in my opinion, I think this buleria is tuned EADGAD....as per Riqueni buleria in encuentro and Paco's on Cañada tango (Low E is actually also put down to A an octave below. But left hand "grips" would be the same as Pinonate).

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2012 1:44:37
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to turnermoran) 
Slow the recording down. Listen to the open strings - they sound brighter, thinner, sometimes sound longer (no need for performer to fret them) and can repeat more often. Find out what is the deepest bass note in the piece. Then start experimenting, trying out different possibilities and see if the material is playable.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2012 2:11:40
 
Northern Rock

Posts: 87
Joined: Oct. 12 2008
From: London UK

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

Video is prefered. in my opinion, I think this buleria is tuned EADGAD....as per Riqueni buleria in encuentro and Paco's on Cañada tango (Low E is actually also put down to A an octave below. But left hand "grips" would be the same as Pinonate).

So let me get this staight is Paco,s La Canada tuned EADGAD or AADGAD. Sorry if I.ve got the wrong end of what you said but this Tangos is on my list of things to play before I die and I want to get it right .

Is there any vid footageof Paco or some one else playing same ? only I haven,t found any so far.

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"Now Im retired I,ve got my practise time down to 4 hours aday".................Julian Bream
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2012 8:08:54
 
turnermoran

Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
 

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to turnermoran) 
Thanks guys! Though it seems we may be on our way to have two of the most esteemed members of the Foro disagreeing on the Pinonate tuning.

Which makes the 'listen for the open strings' not quite fool proof!


What did people do before YouTube?! Didn't Grisha take most (all?) of the PdL material off records alone?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2012 21:55:14
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to Northern Rock) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Northern Rock

quote:

Video is prefered. in my opinion, I think this buleria is tuned EADGAD....as per Riqueni buleria in encuentro and Paco's on Cañada tango (Low E is actually also put down to A an octave below. But left hand "grips" would be the same as Pinonate).

So let me get this staight is Paco,s La Canada tuned EADGAD or AADGAD. Sorry if I.ve got the wrong end of what you said but this Tangos is on my list of things to play before I die and I want to get it right .

Is there any vid footageof Paco or some one else playing same ? only I haven,t found any so far.



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www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2012 23:46:05
 
Northern Rock

Posts: 87
Joined: Oct. 12 2008
From: London UK

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to Ricardo) 
Thank you,now you,ve gone and done it !

Maybe start a new thread "Top five pieces to learn before you die"

My first one would be the Siroco version of this
Gracias Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 18 2012 8:23:51
 
Issam

 

Posts: 50
Joined: Sep. 3 2010
 

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to Ricardo) 
Isn't "La Cañada" tuned CADGAD?

This live version is in the Dropped D tuning (DADGBE)


But in the album version the 6th, 2nd and 1st strings are tuned down two half steps, So its tuned (CADGAD) instead of (DADGBE)
And you can actually hear the open 6th string (in the album version) at 3:51 sounds like C not A

Am i mistaken?

Edit:
in the album version, if there is a capo on the 3rd fret (which i think there is)
the tuning might actually be AADGAD
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 3 2012 18:59:30
 
Northern Rock

Posts: 87
Joined: Oct. 12 2008
From: London UK

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to Issam) 
Either way a tuff piece to master and not one to try with out the correct tuning.
There was a very good version on you tube of a guys playing close up, knew I should have saved that . If I find it I,ll post it and we can compare our thoughts and deductions.

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"Now Im retired I,ve got my practise time down to 4 hours aday".................Julian Bream
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 20 2012 18:22:53
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to Issam) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Issam

Isn't "La Cañada" tuned CADGAD?

This live version is in the Dropped D tuning (DADGBE)


But in the album version the 6th, 2nd and 1st strings are tuned down two half steps, So its tuned (CADGAD) instead of (DADGBE)
And you can actually hear the open 6th string (in the album version) at 3:51 sounds like C not A

Am i mistaken?

Edit:
in the album version, if there is a capo on the 3rd fret (which i think there is)
the tuning might actually be AADGAD


Paco is not afraid to transpose things around a bit. cañada is AADGAD as stated (see video I posted it's clear even a part make use of Bb-A pull offs on bass string not in original Siroco version). True solo Quiero Caminar uses drop D tuning, but the vid you loaded is actually just standard tuning in key of D. Same version is Carlos Saura movie. However the Luzia album version is almost the exact same with an extra falseta....but it's all in D#. But Chonchi sings, so his bro sings lower so he dropped all the falsetas down one fret but had to do away with that one nice falseta that only works nice in D#.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 21 2012 0:43:18
 
Issam

 

Posts: 50
Joined: Sep. 3 2010
 

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to Ricardo) 
That makes sense, Thanks Ricardo!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 21 2012 15:26:18
 
Northern Rock

Posts: 87
Joined: Oct. 12 2008
From: London UK

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

Paco is not afraid to transpose things around a bit. cañada is AADGAD as stated (see video I posted it's clear even a part make use of Bb-A pull offs on bass string not in original Siroco version). True solo Quiero Caminar uses drop D tuning, but the vid you loaded is actually just standard tuning in key of D. Same version is Carlos Saura movie. However the Luzia album version is almost the exact same with an extra falseta....but it's all in D#. But Chonchi sings, so his bro sings lower so he dropped all the falsetas down one fret but had to do away with that one nice falseta that only works nice in D#.

R
Ok I,ll give that ago , just give me 10 years and I,ll get back to you,but thank you again Ricardo.So many tuneings only one guitar............ sniff !!

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"Now Im retired I,ve got my practise time down to 4 hours aday".................Julian Bream
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 21 2012 20:12:28
 
tijeretamiel

 

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
 

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to Northern Rock) 
Is there much Flamenco is open/alternate tunings aside from the ones mentioned in this thread so far?

I came across this video from the La Sonanta website and the tuning is pretty crazy F#EBF#BE


How does even a player set up their lowest string to be downloaded eg 4 semitones eg for La Cañada (eg in CADGAD)? Does it require different strings for such tunings?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 21 2012 22:24:27
 
Dave K

Posts: 155
Joined: Mar. 29 2006
 

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to tijeretamiel) 
quote:

Is there much Flamenco is open/alternate tunings aside from the ones


God, I hope not... Notice Myrddin said he was going to play a "bulerias" ??? Then at 5:03 in the video, the words "Mariano Conde Blanca" pop up - Is there any Truth there at all?
Cheers,
Dave

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Avise La Fin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 21 2012 23:52:51
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Transcribing: how do you figure ... (in reply to turnermoran) 
Myrddin does not play in weird tuning. He is weird. hahha..ok and plays in altered tuning.. however.. In a very interesting way. I only wish he would strum compas in another way. The rest is really awesome.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 22 2012 23:02:01
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