RE: My Francisco Barba has seen better days!

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estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: My Francisco Barba has seen bett... (in reply to El_Tortuga)

If it were me doing the repair, I would glue it back together and then put an iron on the headstock veneer and melt the white glue they used and then peel it off. Then prep the area and glue on a new head stock veneer with hide glue, three laminations, two at .020 and one thicker rosewood plate, the same thickness as the existing one. That would be more substantial and likely not to break again because it would splint the broken section to the neck better.

Putting a counter plate on the back side of the headstock would also strengthen it. I think if you don't put a new head plate on it, it will still be a compromised headstock.

The guitar seems worth it, whether it is a Barba or not. ( it's not)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2012 20:02:28

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: My Francisco Barba has seen bett... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nealf

El Tortuga - This is not a "Barba", its simply a cheap estudio model from Valencia, and looking at the headstock its a Sanchis. Even the label of the primera is different. It should be referred to as a "Barba Estudio".

Luthiers buy these estudios for around 200 Euros wholesale (probably less) and then mark them up and resell. Es una locura!

If you think this sounds like a Barba primera then its your imagination ... BArba has nothing to do with the construction of these guitars, they come pre-fabricated from either the Sanchis or Burguet factory (that headstock used to be seen on Burguets cheaper models too in the 1990's)

Most punters are sold on the myth that they are either built to Barbas plans or professionally setup to the famous luthiers specs, but this is actually hogwash, they come fully made and pre-strung from factory and no one resets or adjusts them prior to selling (thats the job of the buyer). Famous luthiers make more money selling their primeras and thats what they focus on.

Either of Francisco's sons (who speak good english) are quite clear on this when asked.

While it's clearly felt to be a negative thing, this making the guitar cheap in factory and contracting to different "luthier" builders, the simple SCARY truth is that at least in case of Sanchis (both Ricardo Sanchis Carpio and the sons hermanos sanchis lopez) these "cheap" factory built instruments more often than not sound and respond BETTER and more flamenco than A LOT of expensive luthier hand made long wating line even, instruments. No joke. It's not just ME either I have seen pros prefer a cheap sanchis over other builds. And then there was a personal story of Nuñez, who had come to his beach home without a guitar but felt a need to practice for some days before a concert, close friend invited him to his extensive collection of both old and new famous makes....and Gerardo decided on the (in the owner's words spoken with a laugh) "The F-ing SANCHIS!!!!".

One could argue in Gerardo's case that the main reason is the closeness in design of the sanchis to the Atocha Conde he has been using for some years now (perhaps same literal builder), but that doesn't make the story any less significant when you consider his playing level, and the options he had available.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2012 22:34:10

El_Tortuga

Posts: 258
Joined: Aug. 11 2011
From: Canada

RE: My Francisco Barba has seen bett... (in reply to El_Tortuga)

Ok, let me get this straight: I paid 100,000 pesetas (almost $1000 Canadian at the time), plus customs/duty/shipping, making the total around $1400, for a guitar that has Barba's name on it, but that he paid only 200EU for someone else to build, and likely didn't even see or touch??

Not that I was expecting a primera for that price, but still!! ......

Ricardo, as to your comments about the tone of the Sanchis, I have to say, the one I own DOES have a very "flamenco" tone, with amazing attack in the trebles, better than any other I've heard amongst my friends and colleagues who own flamenco guitars. It's not super loud but damn it sure is a blanca.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2012 23:16:42

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

RE: My Francisco Barba has seen bett... (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

Sanchis (both Ricardo Sanchis Carpio and the sons hermanos sanchis lopez) these "cheap" factory built instruments more often than not sound and respond BETTER and more flamenco than A LOT of expensive luthier hand made long wating line even, instruments. No joke. It's not just ME either I have seen pros prefer a cheap sanchis over other builds.

if its only 200 Euros, I wanna get it!! is it possible to even get them nowadays directly from that factory?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 10 2012 23:54:33

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: My Francisco Barba has seen bett... (in reply to El_Tortuga)

Tortuga

Don`t be a bit upset that your guitar is a Sanchis. When people ask me to recommend a guitar I send them there or to Valeriano. I even know how to find the taller, which is incredibly well hidden and Valencia is hard to get to..

They are very nice people:once I selected a guitar and had not enough cash to pay for it. For some reason the bank cajeros locked my card. But they gave me the guitar and I promised to send the money. We all ended up eating together in a local restaurant. I sent the money the next day, which surprised them, Andalusía being what it is.

Your guitar would cost more than 2000 euros direct from the taller. Well worth fixing, but in the manner suggested by Estebanana.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2012 0:16:36

El_Tortuga

Posts: 258
Joined: Aug. 11 2011
From: Canada

RE: My Francisco Barba has seen bett... (in reply to estebanana)

Again, thanks everyone for your insights and recommendations, I appreciate it very much.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2012 0:58:16

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to estebanana)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2012 3:41:28

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: My Francisco Barba has seen bett... (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

If it were me doing the repair, I would glue it back together and then put an iron on the headstock veneer and melt the white glue they used and then peel it off. Then prep the area and glue on a new head stock veneer with hide glue, three laminations, two at .020 and one thicker rosewood plate, the same thickness as the existing one. That would be more substantial and likely not to break again because it would splint the broken section to the neck better.

Putting a counter plate on the back side of the headstock would also strengthen it. I think if you don't put a new head plate on it, it will still be a compromised headstock.

Yes, thats how I would do it as well. But i dont think a counter plate will do much. The headstock has broken very close to the scarf joint and thats what they do. I´ve repaired 2 headstocks from these guitars. exactly the same story.. And IMHO its totally a design failure. the headangle is way to steep and thats why they break. I will not advice anyone to buy one of these guitars.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2012 8:49:12

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: My Francisco Barba has seen bett... (in reply to estebanana)

With respect of the guitar being fake or not. The IMPORTANT QUESTON is if Barba has signed this guitar or not. The fact that it has his name on it doesnt mean anything. You can find Valencia guitars with the label changed everywhere.. From a small handbuilder to big names like Conde and Barba.

Also, there are different models used this way and you cant say that they all cost 200,-€ and that they are all the same. Because thats simply not true. I´ve worked in a shop where we glued in labels. (they were not signed) Standard procedure is that you have different quality and that you sell for twice the price that you pay. (all shop business is like that) Remember that from that price the shop has to pay 18% vat and the cost of running the business. These days a lot of shops are closing and I doubt that its worth selling "student" guitars.
The more expensive Sanchis that are being sold with other labels are very nice guitars if you like that voice. I personally dont. To nasal, but thats just me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 11 2012 8:50:33

timoteo

Posts: 219
Joined: Jun. 22 2012
From: Seattle, USA

RE: My Francisco Barba has seen bett... (in reply to El_Tortuga)

Back to the original post ... this is a classic about checking guitars as baggage on airplanes:

I'm about to take a trip for the first time with my nice lutiher-built blanca, and I'm stressing out!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2012 5:59:25

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: My Francisco Barba has seen bett... (in reply to estebanana)

I'm sorry to see your guitar like this. It's hardly a consolation but it could be worse... look at the guitar remains TANúñez is holding in his hands.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 20 2012 13:56:44

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: My Francisco Barba has seen bett... (in reply to El_Tortuga)

This post is old but when I saw the decapitated guitar at the top of the thread I got excited because it is the EXACT same guitar as mine (see pic) except off by one year (mine is a ‘96). It’s pretty cool to know who the biological father of my guitar is now - Francisco Barba of all people!!!