RE: Stiffness of guitar

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Jeff Highland

Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 5 2010
From: Caves Beach Australia

RE: Stiffness of guitar (in reply to Rmn)

The instrument you use to measure the tension on your strings is an electronic tuner.
For a given brand and model of strings ,on the one guitar, their tension will always be constant.
The stiffness of the soundboard may vary with higher humidity affecting it's arch and this may translate into higher string clearance and a soundboard which is more resistant to movement.

IF you want hi tech methods you can use a simple dial guage supported over the bridge area to measure the deflection of the soundboard under load.
Or alternatively, with a USB microphone and the free download of "Virtual analyser" you can use tap testing to find the resonant frequency of your top and see if it is within the normal range, high or showing a lot of variation with humidity.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2012 3:59:56

Rmn

Posts: 308
Joined: May 14 2011

RE: Stiffness of guitar (in reply to Jeff Highland)

quote:

The instrument you use to measure the tension on your strings is an electronic tuner.
For a given brand and model of strings ,on the one guitar, their tension will always be constant.
The stiffness of the soundboard may vary with higher humidity affecting it's arch and this may translate into higher string clearance and a soundboard which is more resistant to movement.

IF you want hi tech methods you can use a simple dial guage supported over the bridge area to measure the deflection of the soundboard under load.
Or alternatively, with a USB microphone and the free download of "Virtual analyser" you can use tap testing to find the resonant frequency of your top and see if it is within the normal range, high or showing a lot of variation with humidity.

The USB mic and the software thing sounds like a nice analysis method. thanks

Ok, you say that the guitar plays the best and is loose when its pretty high humidity.

quote:

That makes me think that there´s a good chance that this guitar was built under pretty high humidity, because thats when it relaxes. Does your builder work in a humidity controled environment? (few Spanish builders do)
It has two problems. Where you live, its pretty dry at least 6 - 8month a year.
Guitars built under high humidity are fragile and cracks easily when it gets dry. Be carefull with it and keep it humidified.

Hi Anders, sorry if my English doesnt allow me to explain it the right way. I mean to say it the other way around. when humid and cold the strings are so tense that it feels like you are playing rejas of iron instead of strings of nylon.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2012 9:05:55

Rmn

Posts: 308
Joined: May 14 2011

RE: Stiffness of guitar (in reply to Jeff Highland)

thanks for the reply all the others.

I think if you spend a lot of time with an instrument you indeed will focus on small details and will notice every little change.

I think I personally like thinner soundboard. It's a bit of a shame that this guitar that is very well made, that sound very good has these changes. I think it would have been different when the top would have been thinner.

me too think that playability is more important than sound gerundino63, thanks for the reply

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2012 9:18:52

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Stiffness of guitar (in reply to Rmn)

quote:

Hi Anders, sorry if my English doesnt allow me to explain it the right way. I mean to say it the other way around. when humid and cold the strings are so tense that it feels like you are playing rejas of iron instead of strings of nylon.

You can always choose to write in Spanish as well. The way you explain it now, it seems like it was built dry. Do you know in which part of the year it was built and in which village.

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2012 11:45:40

Rmn

Posts: 308
Joined: May 14 2011

RE: Stiffness of guitar (in reply to Jeff Highland)

quote:

quote:

Hi Anders, sorry if my English doesnt allow me to explain it the right way. I mean to say it the other way around. when humid and cold the strings are so tense that it feels like you are playing rejas of iron instead of strings of nylon.

You can always choose to write in Spanish as well. The way you explain it now, it seems like it was built dry. Do you know in which part of the year it was built and in which village.

He started this project in 2011 and finished it last july. He builds in between his taller in Sanlucar La Mayor and Triana. He says that this wood he had been drying for more than 20 years. He dries the wood in the open sun in the field in its first fases he says

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2012 12:13:47

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Stiffness of guitar (in reply to Jeff Highland)

What is important is the humidity of the workshop during the construction of the guitar. If its wrong, then the wood can be 100 years old, the sun can be shining or not. It wont change the fact that the guitar has been built in a wrong atmosfere.
Besides, age of wood is good, but a lot more important is it how it was aged. I´ve seen 30+ years old cypress that was full of mould because of being aged in a very humid place. It was useless IMO.
Also, and again, its only my opinion, its not a good idea to use a long time to build a guitar. There are more chances that you get problems with changes in humidity etc. You can do a lot of preparation over time, but when its assembly time, the parts should be left in a controlled environment for a while, so that they are all "stress free" and at the same humidity and afterwards being assembled within a time that is not to long.

I´m not saying that there is something wrong with your guitar. I dont know. I havent seen it and its difficult to say anyways. Maybe its just to stiff for you and nothing else.

Try to forget a bit about all this and just play the guitar. Sometimes its us, the players, that are very picky, nervous, push to much and expect to much. Try playing it a bit with a piece of sponge or cloth underneath the string close to the bridge. This way you dont focus on the sound, but only the feel of the guitar. Try to find the spot where the guitar works the best for your hands and the take out the sponge and play along. Do it a couple of days and see how you feel. Very often guitars feel softer when doing this. Its totally in the mind and nothing else.

Good luck.

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2012 15:58:11

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: Stiffness of guitar (in reply to Rmn)

So Rmn, what happened with the guitar. Did Anders see it? Did you figure out why it was stiff?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2013 2:18:23

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Stiffness of guitar (in reply to Rmn)

THis is all normal for any guitar made of wood. When it dries it gets "stiff" because the action comes up that's all. Even old guitars well dried out will suffer this if they encounter humidity. Young fresh guitars have it a bit worse but as I said ALL guitars suffer this thing, I don't care what anybody says. If you play a lot, you will notice it more often. My mom said , long ago, that she used to have two bones, one for summer and one for winter. These days the weather has been so wacky it would be a pain to change the bone out as often as it would help.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2013 15:11:09