RE: Building Guitar Number 100.

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Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Thanks Jim. I´m glad my efforts are usefull and interesting. There are not many replys, but I can see that a lot members are following the thread, so I guess its because it interesting

quote:

- So, guess the dip I see every other time to actually be one

Me notta understand. I´m from Huelva.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2012 17:57:13

n85ae

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Joined: Sep. 7 2006

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Oct. 9 2012 22:27:47

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2012 22:27:37

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Seriously Anders, there's not much to post. Your thread speaks for itself. It's
a really nice one. Thanks for putting it out!!!

Regards,
Jeff

quote:

Thanks Jim. I´m glad my efforts are usefull and interesting. There are not many replys, but I can see that a lot members are following the thread, so I guess its because it interesting

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2012 22:29:19

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I could heckle you if you need more postings besides your own.

I know how you do the rosette, when I first saw it a few years ago I thought about it for several hours. I figured out a couple of ways of doing it, I'm sure you must use one of those ways. Maybe?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2012 22:51:16

Anders Eliasson

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Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I´m pretty sure I´m using one of your ways when I make rosettes.

I can see that the thread is being followed. Around 100 hits a day is a lot, so I´m relaxed and happy that my effort is being used. Because it is a lot of work. Anyways, we´re close to the final chapter.

So now its time to get serious... Really serious:

The final check of the thickness of the soundboard.

With a Hacklinger guide, I check the final thickness of the soundboard after the final sanding. There´s still time to do little corrections. IMHO, if you dont do this, you´re building guitars in the blind and you cannot control your output. We ALL make the edges thinner after gluing the bindings. Doesn´t matter if you sand or scrape. You remove wood. This has to be taken into consideration before the assembly and its good to try to hone your skills. I take the rough part of the bindings away with a gooseneck scraper in order to concentrate on a small surface, then after that, a thin square scraper and finally a small piece of sandpaper on a very small sanding block. And SLOW is a good word to remember. And its good to have very sharp scrapers.
In general, I prefer the edges to be around 0,2mm thinner than the center of the soundboard. On the picture, you can see that it clicks on 2,1 and the edges are 1,9mm thick. Thats thin, but this piece of German spruce is hard and strong, so its pretty normal.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2012 8:07:41

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

Me notta understand. I´m from Huelva.

Me too. ;O)

What I meant is that sometimes I see sunken in tops that appear to have taken the fretboard with them.

I used to wonder how the forces of a soundboard structure can bend a fretboard. And when you mentioned fretboards planning, I for a minute thought to have found an explanation for optical deception.

Anyway, that´s of no relevance / I shouldn´t had bothered you with this.

Much more interesting to know is how the device works that you measure the tops thickness with. Can´t wrap my head around the question of how it works without contact to the boards inner surface.
Certainly fascinating invention if it can.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2012 8:54:28

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

I can see that the thread is being followed

Yes, keep it going please

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2012 9:35:10

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

Can´t wrap my head around the question of how it works without contact to the boards inner surface.

A magnet underneath?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2012 9:36:22

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I reluctantly follow the thread Anders; just because it makes me want one of your guitars but I can’t afford one at the moment

Jokes aside, keep it going master; I am really enjoying following this thread (as I did watching the El Guitarrero)
A

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2012 9:50:58

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

A magnet underneath?

Indeed, that sounds quite like an option!

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2012 11:59:04

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

Can´t wrap my head around the question of how it works without contact to the boards inner surface.

Yes, its a magnet. A calibrated magnet. If you loose it, you have to send the thingy back and have a new one calibrated. The caliper is surprisingly accurate. I love those mechanical devices from a time where a computer was the size of a building or maybe it hadn´t even been made.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2012 16:04:36

Ruphus

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Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Thank you; always great to learn of such stuff!

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2012 11:47:32

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

re: the Hacklinger gauge.
I made about 25 guitars using a Hacklinger gauge, and it's definitely a beautiful little tool. I used to make sure that the top was evenly graduated from the edge to the center all around etc.
For the last 4-5 guitars I haven't had a Hacklinger so I'm now "building blind".

I don't know if I'm just getting more finely tuned as a builder but these last few guitars have been my best, and interestingly enough, I have now achieved much more consistency from guitar to guitar.
I use my thumbs to press on different areas of the soundboard to check the stiffness. I also have some tapping techniques where I'll rest one thumb on the soundboard in different areas and tap on the other side to feel how much the soundboard kicks back. (and listen to the sound or course)

I think I have a pretty reliable bank of sensory data in my brain now, because I would always do these things along side using the Hacklinger guage, so I had the hard numbers and also what it felt like for different soundboards. For example I built one guitar a while ago where the soundboard was definitely on the thin side, maybe a little to thin. I remember how flexible that was and how much it deflected in different areas and have that one extreme in my brain so I don't ever go quite that far when I'm thinning the top.

I actually have some plans that were published in American Lutherie to make your own magnetic thickness gauge for under I think $30 or so.
But for right now I'm enjoying building blind

Not knocking the usefullness of the tool but sometimes it can be surprising how finely tuned your own senses can be (I'm sure you know this)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2012 20:42:29

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Not related to lutherie, but a mechanical pilots computer (called an E6B) which
is like a round slide rule, is about 10 times faster for simple in flight
calculations (like how much fuel burned per hour, distance travelled, etc)
than is a digital push button calculator. Not all technology is better,
just attracts people with the eye candy.

Regards,
Jeff

quote:

Yes, its a magnet. A calibrated magnet. If you loose it, you have to send the thingy back and have a new one calibrated. The caliper is surprisingly accurate. I love those mechanical devices from a time where a computer was the size of a building or maybe it hadn´t even been made.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2012 21:01:44

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deteresa1

I use my thumbs to press on different areas of the soundboard to check the stiffness. I also have some tapping techniques where I'll rest one thumb on the soundboard in different areas and tap on the other side to feel how much the soundboard kicks back. (and listen to the sound or course)

You probably know the story about Antonio de Torres. He was getting older. At a dinner party the host urged him to write a book, to pass on his unparalleled knowledge as the greatest guitarrero of the era.

"Sadly, my knowledge must die with me," Torres replied.

"But why is that?" asked the host.

"All my knowledge is in these," answered Torres, waggling his thumbs.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2012 21:21:17

Anders Eliasson

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Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Andy,

You´re most probably right that its your senses that have become better. It takes a long time to educate them. I considered my first 50 guitars to be apprentice guitars and I will continue to be an apprentice for the rest of my life.

Tools are just tools and a Hacklinger is just a Hacklinger and Stradivarius or Torres didnt have one. It should always be used together with the sensitivity of your fingers, ears and your whole presence. But I´m pretty sure that you´ll see, when your senses have gone even better, that a Hacklinger actually is a very good tool and that it helps collecting data for use in the instrument you are using it on and for the instruments that you´ll be building in the future.
The worst that one can do is to trust tools to much. They are only tools and they are only made to be helpers. And they should never take charge of anything.
I´ve also built without a Hacklinger guide and some of those instruments are amongst the finest I´ve made, but my output is more even now and I have more control of what I´m doing. This has a lot to do with what you say yourself, that we get better with every instrument we make, if our mind, soul and senses are present when we work.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2012 8:08:34

Ruphus

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Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Another luthier, Manuel Velasquez I think, is supposed to have said a similar thing; mentioning that he can´t teach what is in the thumbs.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2012 8:14:55

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

The bridge.

Inbetween these labours, I made the bridge.

First, the slots are routed on my drill press, next, the bridge is shaped with rasps and sandpaper sticks and finally, the finished bridge with its decorative and protective plate.
Its a very high quality piece of Madagascar rosewood.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2012 15:43:56

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I don't post much on this thread because I have nothing of value to add to the conversation but as a carpenter I find it incredibly fascinating and really appreciate your taking the time to post this stuff, it's really invaluable. Some day when I have a garage I hope to take a serious try at it. Thank you Anders.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2012 15:49:44

koenie17

Posts: 438
Joined: Feb. 25 2011
From: España

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Making your own guitar and then play it yourself must be something amazing!
Beautifull and really interesting photos! I´m drooling here in front of my laptop.
Please never stop working as a luthier Anders!! It would be a great loss for flamenco.

When I can afford it again, I´d definately like to have one of those beauties!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2012 17:42:00

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

You probably know the story about Antonio de Torres. He was getting older. At a dinner party the host urged him to write a book, to pass on his unparalleled knowledge as the greatest guitarrero of the era.

"Sadly, my knowledge must die with me," Torres replied.

"But why is that?" asked the host.

"All my knowledge is in these," answered Torres, waggling his thumbs.

RNJ

Yep I have heard that one.... great story and so true.

Anders, you're right and I'm sure my building will continue to evolve. One day it will be interesting to get a Hacklinger and measure one of my completed guitars to figure out what I've been doing. Also, it's an awesome tool for measuring other guitars that come into the shop.
I'm definitely still in apprenticeship to myself and others too, and you never stop learning.

Beautiful job on the bridge. If I may ask a technical question, is that one solid piece of bone with a rectangle cut out for the inlay? It always seemed like a tricky procedure to me so I use mitered bone pieces.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2012 21:59:52

Anders Eliasson

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RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

The bridge inlay is from one solid piece of bone with a rectangle cut out. Its easy if you have a good coping saw.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2012 8:18:30

stephen hill

Posts: 300
Joined: Feb. 16 2004
From: La Herradura, Granada, Spain

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Anders, truly sorry for your loss.
Congratulations on your 100th guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2012 14:02:35

Anders Eliasson

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Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Thanks Stephen

So here we are where we began. The first photo repeated together with one of the back. Here the guitar is ready to be French Polished.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2012 15:36:03

Henner Hagenlocher

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Joined: Jan. 9 2012

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Hi Anders,
I am very sorry to hear that your wife passed away. Wish you to get over it in due time and keep on making.
Un abrazo muy fuerte
Henner

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2012 22:49:23

Anders Eliasson

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Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Thanks Henner. Long time no see.

Good luck with your course.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2012 8:07:12

Blair Russell

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Joined: Sep. 6 2012
From: Bristol

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Anders, how do you route the slots on the drill press?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2012 10:14:16

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

You make some kind of fence to give the distance, set the drill press to a certain depth, move the bit down on the bridge plank and route along.
I thought I had a photo, but I cant find it. Another day, another build.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2012 14:58:42

Anders Eliasson

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Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

So here we have a timejump in 3 month and now we are almost real time.
I left the guitar for 2 month because of personal commitments and even though my workshop is pretty dark when the shutters of my main window are closed, the soundboard of the guitar clearly got darker and prettyer. And now the soundboard and the sides are in the same shade of colors. It´ll get darker with age.
Now its been French polished and here we go with the gluing of the bridge. The last item to be glued on.
First you can see how I´ve removed the shellack where the bridge will be and then a picture of the gluing process.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2012 15:42:40

Ruphus

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Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Building Guitar Number 100. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

For a detail that crucial for intonation / overall performance, I suppose you use a stencile to ensure exact positioning of the bridge?

I would also be curious about how you guys delicately remove the shellack without harming neither the tops surface nor ambient finish.
-

She really looks great now with the shades of colour and that rossette!

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2012 16:15:20